Help growing copepods in refugium

[FinnyGyrrl]

Used Walt Smith Fiji Mud for my last build. I believe it helped pods literally explode!! I am in love with that product, so far! (It ships moist, and when I added it to the fuge, the Lps & softies looked like they were performing in a musical! "Dance hands, everyone!"). So, that experience helps me feel that a good fuge Substrate makes a difference, too.
I chose to add a Mud product, because my LFS owner said he has found them very helpful in keeping fish healthy, long-term. The pods' reproduction increase was a pleasant surprise.

 

[pdisner]

Used Walt Smith Fiji Mud for my last build. I believe it helped pods literally explode!! I am in love with that product, so far! (It ships moist, and when I added it to the fuge, the Lps & softies looked like they were performing in a musical! "Dance hands, everyone!"). So, that experience helps me feel that a good fuge Substrate makes a difference, too.
I chose to add a Mud product, because my LFS owner said he has found them very helpful in keeping fish healthy, long-term. The pods' reproduction increase was a pleasant surprise.

So one thing that you’ll lean is that copepods LOVE to live in the MUCK. When you run a traditional culture with a bucket, here’s like a slimey layer that will build up, a mix or detritus and dead microalgae. This is the richest area of the culture, especially for the young in some species. The correct term for this is the “mulm”. Word for the day, lol.
So I just wanted to show you what great things having copepods around will do. On my last batch striped blennies, I was able to save all of them after a big rotifer crash by using Apex pods. It was amazing. Here’s video that I took today. They are now super healthy and colorful. Copepods are a natural “first-food” for marine larvae and have been proven to shorten the larval period and reduce mortality. I’m very convinced on the power of the pod! Here they are:

 

[Rakie]

The food for thought I can give you is this; I've had several refugiums. They've all worked, and they've all cultivated pods.. But after nt having one for awhile I was shocked to find that plugging a frag tank into my system with no predators made the best pod farm I could EVER imagine. I've got big amphipods and various little pod species. My wrasse LOVE the flow of pods that trickle into the display, and the high quality lighting on my frag tank ensures the pods have all they could ever want to eat. I feel confident having NEVER had this much success with pods that it's the lighting that gives them the ability to thrive. As the lighting is making small algae for them and all that jazz.

 

[pdisner]

Like I mentioned before, let’s not confuse everyone trying to learn. There’s a HUGE night and day difference w between copepods and amphipods. Amphipods are much bigger than most species of copepods amd although the may eat a few of the same things, their diet is totally different. Copepods are attracted to light, whereas amphipods are photophobic, hiding in the daytime underneath or inside objects like live rock or Chaeto. Amphipods are BIG detritovores. I stock my refugium with these as well. The reason that you’d want to Culture copepods is if you have predators that will only eat copepods, such as a wild mandarin. You have to populate faster than they’re being eaten. The other reason to Culture pods is when you first start up a tank and you want to establish a population in the display and refugium. Keeping them seperate in say a 5 gal bucket will allow u to control their environment, making it an ideal place to reproduce. Then from there harvest every so often, pouring them off into the refugium with flow off to let them settle.
I’m not saying that it’s impossible to do another way, this is just the easier, cheaper (because you’re not constantly buying) and the most reliable method. You’ll never run out!

 

[wdavid]

So one thing that you’ll lean is that copepods LOVE to live in the MUCK. When you run a traditional culture with a bucket, here’s like a slimey layer that will build up, a mix or detritus and dead microalgae. This is the richest area of the culture, especially for the young in some species. The correct term for this is the “mulm”. Word for the day, lol.
So I just wanted to show you what great things having copepods around will do. On my last batch striped blennies, I was able to save all of them after a big rotifer crash by using Apex pods. It was amazing. Here’s video that I took today. They are now super healthy and colorful. Copepods are a natural “first-food” for marine larvae and have been proven to shorten the larval period and reduce mortality. I’m very convinced on the power of the pod! Here they are:

Oh so the ideal combo for in tank breeding would be some form of mud + phyto in a fuge vs just phyto? Or would the Mulm layer that you mentioned that they create be good enough for the job in your opinion?

 

[Hypen2000]

WHAT A GREAT DISCUSSION EVERYONE! Let’s get some more articles tho. I’m working on getting my Dropbox going and collecting files. Soon I’ll have the. Up for everyone to pick at.

Yea I totally agree. But at the same time, I don't mind you and other experts reading distilling the info for the rest of us! A bit lazy on my part, I know, but there is just so much to learn and so little time. Plus the time to enjoy the tank! Thanks again pdisner

 

[thermoJoe]

I've basically setup a semi continuous culture of algae (Tetraselmis) to drip into my refugium. I run the 1 L culture at a dilution rate of
0.1/d (that is, 100 mL of medium gets pumped into bioreactor each day, and 100 mL of algal culture enters the refugium by overflow). I use f/2 medium as the feed. Both algae inoculum and concentrated medium are from Florida Aqua Farms in this case. The f/2 medium is fed from a 5 L bottle, so lasts about 50 days. So kind of low maintenance.

My sump is pretty much teaming with copepods, but I'm not sure of the species, as I've introduce several species over the years. They seem to hover above the benthose, so I don't think they are the pelagic variety.

The algal culture has been remarkably stable, and has remained a near mono-culture for more than a year, perhaps 2, and it is not run under particularly sterile conditions. The concentration of inorganic nutrient dripping in are pretty low, so most, >99%, goto algae. But, this method does introduce nutients once the algae are eaten, but same is true of dosing any organism.

Here's a pic of the setup. If people are interested, I can try to give more info on details, but I may be slow to respond.

 

[pdisner]

Very nice setup. I can tel, that you put a lot of science based knowledge to work. My bet is that you’ve been doing this for awhile. It’s probably a little more advanced for some.
I use Florida aquafarms for growing live phytoplankton. The problem with this company is that lately it seems that they’re out of a lot of strains, usually only carry nannochloropsis. When was the last time you’ve ordered? I’ve been trying to get my hands on some tetraselmis and isochyrsis. They usually have the tetra but last several month they’ve been out. Nancy who is one of the owners, told me that they buy their disks from a third party which was becoming unreliable, so they were searching for new vendors. Their f/2 is the most reasonably priced out there , from what I’ve looked at.
But if anyone will share their strains, I would pay for a batch of a couple strains. Do you have bough to share? If not, can you gear up for it? I’ll bet you could make some xtra money by making more than u need. I think everyone should grow a little nannochloropsis at least to dose to your display tank. It will compete with filamentous pest algaes by taking up nutrients.

 

[pdisner]

Id like to talk to you about more specifics. Can you message me? I can be reached on my Facebook site, @PaulsPodsAZ. I would like to talk to you about buying some source culture of some of the strains you’re growing.

 

[pdisner]

Oh so the ideal combo for in tank breeding would be some form of mud + phyto in a fuge vs just phyto? Or would the Mulm layer that you mentioned that they create be good enough for the job in your opinion?

So here’s another way of looking at ways to try and create a dense population of copepods. If you want something to reproduce, you’re going to create an environment where all of their biological needs are met, right? This includes the right type of food containing the right kind of nutrients, in abundance. When these needs are fulfilled they will proliferate. You just need to figure out the correct combination.
So, a tank or refugium contains a lot more water than a bucket, tank or other container and You’ll use less food to satisfy them. If you tried this in your aquarium you’d have a giant green water reef, lol.
The mulm layer at he bottom just refers to the muck, and yes the mid would kind of act like that you would think. I’ve tried this method, but I ended up spending a lot of money for something that made my tank dirty. The light I was referring to is from Home Depot. There, they also have these food-safe 5gal bucket that I like because they’re clear. And also, when everyone is setting up their culture, run the air at a lower flow thru an OPEN ENDED airline. Heres an example of the bucket & one of my own Apex cultures. I’ve just started this culture and you can see the many pods already showing up. It’s been about 3 days since starting the culture. I will slowly add saltwater as I go, until I reach the 4 gallon mark. By adding water this way, I take care of two things. I can compensate for evaporation to keep salinity stable at about 1.023, and keeping ammonia level in check by using the dilution method. These cultures can foul if left unchecked or overfeed. Don’t add refugium mud to any side Culture! For sure you’ll have a rotten smelling mess in no time flat! It’s that rotten egg smell too. Hydrogen sulfide.
Here’s the pics of my culture as I was saying above.

 

[pdisner]

I live in Texas and my cultures are done in the garage. 5 gallon buckets. S and L types from Reeds. No A/C. When its 105F by day and only gets down to 78F at night the garage cooks with the sun beating on the roof. My cultures died. I did not check the water temp but my pool gets in the mid 80's. Im sure it was somewhere close to 100, maybe even higher.

Yeah that’s why people with basements are extremely lucky in this hobby! I would love a cool place to set up my breeding projects. I live in Tucson so I feel your pain and then some. All of my cultures are inside to keep temps stable and always around 78, +/-2 deg. I believe above 86 degrees you’ll see a sharp decline in production followed quickly by death. Not trying to make you feel bad, but why didn’t you bring them inside? No room? Oh well, you’ll Culture again!

 

[lapin]

Yeah that’s why people with basements are extremely lucky in this hobby! I would love a cool place to set up my breeding projects. I live in Tucson so I feel your pain and then some. All of my cultures are inside to keep temps stable and always around 78, +/-2 deg. I believe above 86 degrees you’ll see a sharp decline in production followed quickly by death. Not trying to make you feel bad, but why didn’t you bring them inside? No room? Oh well, you’ll Culture again!

I have a tank room. Most is filled with my 5x5 tank, sump and all the equip to run it. Leaves very little room for anything else. Our deal was I get the tank room and we dont see any fish stuff all over the rest of the house. I could put an a/c unit in my garage. That would cost some money and since I am retired I dont see me getting a raise to cover that cost.

 

[wdavid]

So here’s another way of looking at ways to try and create a dense population of copepods. If you want something to reproduce, you’re going to create an environment where all of their biological needs are met, right? This includes the right type of food containing the right kind of nutrients, in abundance. When these needs are fulfilled they will proliferate. You just need to figure out the correct combination.
So, a tank or refugium contains a lot more water than a bucket, tank or other container and You’ll use less food to satisfy them. If you tried this in your aquarium you’d have a giant green water reef, lol.

Sadly I have an agreement that I won't keep more fish stuff in the garage or anywhere else, so a culture is out of question. I get crap for for even having a tank

Thank you so much for all the information so far though. Really appreciate it

 

[Subsea]

I have a tank room. Most is filled with my 5x5 tank, sump and all the equip to run it. Leaves very little room for anything else. Our deal was I get the tank room and we dont see any fish stuff all over the rest of the house. I could put an a/c unit in my garage. That would cost some money and since I am retired I dont see me getting a raise to cover that cost.

@lapin
I hope to operate a modified swamp cooler in the next few days. Come by and check it out.

While I maintain my pod cultures in direct sunlight in Austin, I am able to maintain 74 -84 degrees in 900G of water using four 50W box fans and a lot of air bubbles. Due to not bringing fans in during hard rains recently, $100 of fans were ruined creating a serious electrical safety issue. So, I am going to use a swamp cooler concept to chill salt water. Cool moist air is secondary benefit on shaded south porch. My biggest concern is biofowling of drip pads. I may try eggcrate for drip pads.

 

[pdisner]

I have a tank room. Most is filled with my 5x5 tank, sump and all the equip to run it. Leaves very little room for anything else. Our deal was I get the tank room and we dont see any fish stuff all over the rest of the house. I could put an a/c unit in my garage. That would cost some money and since I am retired I dont see me getting a raise to cover that cost.

You’d be surprised what you could do, even on a fixed or low income. I’ll try to make a long story short. I am medically retired, waiting for a disability hearing and zero income. There that was really short for a long story. So you see, I too am in your shoes. You may even be leaps and bounds ahead of me. I basically have a 12x12 study that I fit all of my broodstock tanks in (14 ten gallons plus two sumps), a larval rearing tank and sump, shrimp zoea rearing tank, and all of my zooplankton culture minus the rotifer culture which I keep seperate to prevent contamination. When I am culturing live phyto, I have a dedicated space as well in this study. You can fit a Copepod culture into any size vessel.

 

[pdisner]

Sadly I have an agreement that I won't keep more fish stuff in the garage or anywhere else, so a culture is out of question. I get crap for for even having a tank

Thank you so much for all the information so far though. Really appreciate it

Wel that sucks now, doesn’t it? Hide a small bucket, like a 2gal, and keep it hidden or underneath your tank cabinet!

 

[lapin]

@lapin
I hope to operate a modified swamp cooler in the next few days. Come by and check it out.
Due to not bringing fans in during hard rains recently, $100 of fans were ruined creating a serious electrical safety issue. So, I am going to use a swamp cooler concept to chill salt water.

Will I be safe or should I bring my rubber boots? That swamp cooler is electric yes?

 

[Jay1982]

I've basically setup a semi continuous culture of algae (Tetraselmis) to drip into my refugium. I run the 1 L culture at a dilution rate of
0.1/d (that is, 100 mL of medium gets pumped into bioreactor each day, and 100 mL of algal culture enters the refugium by overflow). I use f/2 medium as the feed. Both algae inoculum and concentrated medium are from Florida Aqua Farms in this case. The f/2 medium is fed from a 5 L bottle, so lasts about 50 days. So kind of low maintenance.

Here's a pic of the setup. If people are interested, I can try to give more info on details, but I may be slow to respond.

I'd love to see a breakdown of this so that I could recreate it!

 

[lapin]

I'd love to see a breakdown of this so that I could recreate it!

I sent him a message requesting more info along with his picture that I numbered some stuff on. As soon as I hear back I or he will post more info.

 

[Subsea]

Will I be safe or should I bring my rubber boots? That swamp cooler is electric yes?

Swamp cooler is under roof. Big difference. However, considering saturated ground and swollen creeks around here, you would be wise to have rubber boots on.