Help! I can't take my rock out!

cpark645

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Hi R2R,

I have some rocks sitting on the bottom of the tank, but I can't get it out! I think the reason is because the sand around/under the rock has completely calcified. I tried lifting everything including the calcified sand around it but no luck. Any ideas?
 
This is a new one. Is the tank wet?
 
Drain the tank down to 3ins....or enough swimming space for fish.

With a hammer, smack the rocks from side-to-side. Putting as little force downwardly on the bottom glass.

Again SMACK ROCKS SIDE-TO-SIDE
 
Is this an empty tank? Maybe an acid solution will help dissolve some of this? If not maybe use some bone cutters at strategic locations?
 
Tank is wet. I'm pretty scared to take a hammer and chisel, I think there's a pretty high chance I'll break the bottom glass.

I probably need to drain it almost all the way and try to use a hammer somehow. Ugh, not looking forward to this :(
 
I've had sand calcify together around rockwork on the bottom of the tank (like you are experiencing). If you can't lift the pieces out, you will have take something with a sharp pointed end and try to break up some of the deposits near the base. Most likely you have a large piece that has calcified all around the bottom that is preventing you from being able to lift the rock. You're just slowly going to have to chisel, chip, or pierce into it to start breaking up chunks. I usually remove the chunks and break them up till they are normal sand and reintroduce back to the tank. It only seemed to be an issue when my tank sand bed was fairly new. I never have the issue after those initial periods of calcification.

You don't have to pound the stuff. You just need to be able to get small holes formed in various spots and then the pieces should crack into several smaller pieces from there. Or at least enough so that the bottom of the rock will be somewhat freed so you can lift it out. You'll have more of the deposit solidified on the bottom of the rock and you can work it out as you see fit.
 
Ok this is new to me. How do you prevent this from happening and how long does it take to do so?
 
Ok this is new to me. How do you prevent this from happening and how long does it take to do so?
Not 100% sure, but I think it is the result of bacteria growth on new sand and it winds up acting like a glue. I found it happens when my sand is stagnant in a certain area, which is typically underneath or beside large rock structures that water flow or sand movement is stagnant. You can most likely prevent it by having proper sand movement, via kepping sand vacuumed periodically or circulated with various critters. You could most likely take a long pointy type stick and test certain areas by poking into the sand to see if its clumping up or not. If areas start to feel harder to penetrate, it's a good sign your getting some solidification occurring.
 
Thanks @Daniel Waters for your detailed explanation. Quick question though, what did you use to start chipping into the calcified sand? Also, did you have to drain it before you started chipping?
 
Dang people.....Am I invisible here?

Take a hammer and smack the rocks in a sidewards motion. The glass won't break unless you hit in a downward motion

SIDEWARD HORIZONTAL SMACK
 
Thanks @Daniel Waters for your detailed explanation. Quick question though, what did you use to start chipping into the calcified sand? Also, did you have to drain it before you started chipping?
I used to just reach my arm down in the tank and would try to pull at the base of pieces that I could feel with my hand. A little pulling back and forth and would get pieces to break off . Typically once I could get one piece free, the rest was a bit easier. That first initial piece would always be the toughest.

You could try a knife, but you want one with a point that's not likely to break off (don't want to be losing a piece of metal in your tank). Maybe a screw driver. I can't really remember what I used. It's been a couple of years since I've had to deal with it.
 
Dang people.....Am I invisible here?

Take a hammer and smack the rocks in a sidewards motion. The glass won't break unless you hit in a downward motion

SIDEWARD HORIZONTAL SMACK
Hah I heard you... I just don't think I have room to swing a hammer in my tank.
 
Dang people.....Am I invisible here?

Take a hammer and smack the rocks in a sidewards motion. The glass won't break unless you hit in a downward motion

SIDEWARD HORIZONTAL SMACK
You can't say hammer and fish tank in the same conversation! Lol
 
Most well built tanks have tempered glass bottom bc its needed to support all that weight.

The bottom glass is a heck of a lot as stronger than you guys get it credit for.

I did tank maintenance for 2yrs and have dropped heavy construction type hammers into empty tanks and the hammer hitting the bottom glass didn't even scratch it
 
Most times the sand will harden like you are describing from new tanks being dosed with too much Calcium and Alkalinity.
With new sand beds and new rock the tank chemistry can be a bit whacky seemingly eating up the carbonates put into the water.
This more times than none is due to over dosing the two products, one or the other and it precipitates into the sand creating rather concrete formation.
Noticing the sand getting hard can be hard at times if you do not stir it or check for this in new tanks and once it starts its hard to stop it relatively speaking as the hardened sand or other areas of precipitation will attract more of the carbonates to keep growing. Just the way this works.

In my last tank transfer back to a 6 foot tank I used all my well seasoned live rock but all new sand , fiji Pink sand.
I was dosing immediately due to the amount of corals in the system from transfer.
Slightly adjusting for the now larger water volume I still managed to get lop sided and to the point of dosing too much as the sand was taking up a bit more than I realized. Process started and kept going.
Large water change and stopped dosing until I got the dropping values recorded and resumed dosing at slightly lower level.
After a couple of months and breaking the sand up in tank back to actual sand OR removing it to add some vinegar / water to a bucket and allowing it to dissolve the ''cement'' then adding it back to the tank after a rinse the tank hit a point of equilibrium along with the new sand now well on its way to getting established and issue went away.
I did however have some spots on the bottom of my acrylic sump that is white where sheets of precipitation was hard to see had formed and once I removed it, No more issue there either.

New tanks are just that, new. Even transferring tanks that are well established and stable creates instabilities once again. New sand is just the same in a brand new tank or in an established one, Just one more reason to take things slow and allow the system to chill while its becoming an ecosystem and not start collecting corals and dosing products immediately. But we all have impatience issue to some form or another.
Plus I share this experience to show that even most seasoned reefers still make errors and mistakes, no one is exempt.

Before I transferred the tank to the larger one, I tested the water and made it snow in the big tank after a dosing goof.
Had used an online calculator to get the proper amount of soda ash solution to raise DKH up to match the other tank. Well I did not select DKH by goof and selected Meq/l thus throwing the amount needed WAY far too high. Being tired and not paying attention I added the absurd amount to the tank and Would Ya know it was snowing inside hahahaha.
Whole tank was just massive flakes and settled on the bottom in a thick crust that took forever to clean and scrape up.
Good news is the tank was just water and not even cycling through the sump or overflows yet.
Another lesson learned even after my many years, check / double check and check again and if that still isnt enough then have fun correcting your mistake and have a laugh about it later as long as no livestock was hurt in the process, this is when it hurts more.

I agree with chipping away at it, You can use things like tweezer ends to scratch at the surface dislodging particles and if you use a chisel ( a clean one ) then just use the weight of the tool and your hand to punch around it carefully.
Yes the glass is stronger than some give credit for and supports the weight within, though while under full water pressure it can and will crack or go bye bye with the right hit on the right spot and easier than one would think.
It can be done safely just go slow and make progress. It will take some time and even after you will be still finding smaller rocks of sand that will drive you nuts for a while that you will have to remove or grind back down.
 
Most times the sand will harden like you are describing from new tanks being dosed with too much Calcium and Alkalinity.
With new sand beds and new rock the tank chemistry can be a bit whacky seemingly eating up the carbonates put into the water.
This more times than none is due to over dosing the two products, one or the other and it precipitates into the sand creating rather concrete formation.
Noticing the sand getting hard can be hard at times if you do not stir it or check for this in new tanks and once it starts its hard to stop it relatively speaking as the hardened sand or other areas of precipitation will attract more of the carbonates to keep growing. Just the way this works.

In my last tank transfer back to a 6 foot tank I used all my well seasoned live rock but all new sand , fiji Pink sand.
I was dosing immediately due to the amount of corals in the system from transfer.
Slightly adjusting for the now larger water volume I still managed to get lop sided and to the point of dosing too much as the sand was taking up a bit more than I realized. Process started and kept going.
Large water change and stopped dosing until I got the dropping values recorded and resumed dosing at slightly lower level.
After a couple of months and breaking the sand up in tank back to actual sand OR removing it to add some vinegar / water to a bucket and allowing it to dissolve the ''cement'' then adding it back to the tank after a rinse the tank hit a point of equilibrium along with the new sand now well on its way to getting established and issue went away.
I did however have some spots on the bottom of my acrylic sump that is white where sheets of precipitation was hard to see had formed and once I removed it, No more issue there either.

New tanks are just that, new. Even transferring tanks that are well established and stable creates instabilities once again. New sand is just the same in a brand new tank or in an established one, Just one more reason to take things slow and allow the system to chill while its becoming an ecosystem and not start collecting corals and dosing products immediately. But we all have impatience issue to some form or another.
Plus I share this experience to show that even most seasoned reefers still make errors and mistakes, no one is exempt.

Before I transferred the tank to the larger one, I tested the water and made it snow in the big tank after a dosing goof.
Had used an online calculator to get the proper amount of soda ash solution to raise DKH up to match the other tank. Well I did not select DKH by goof and selected Meq/l thus throwing the amount needed WAY far too high. Being tired and not paying attention I added the absurd amount to the tank and Would Ya know it was snowing inside hahahaha.
Whole tank was just massive flakes and settled on the bottom in a thick crust that took forever to clean and scrape up.
Good news is the tank was just water and not even cycling through the sump or overflows yet.
Another lesson learned even after my many years, check / double check and check again and if that still isnt enough then have fun correcting your mistake and have a laugh about it later as long as no livestock was hurt in the process, this is when it hurts more.

I agree with chipping away at it, You can use things like tweezer ends to scratch at the surface dislodging particles and if you use a chisel ( a clean one ) then just use the weight of the tool and your hand to punch around it carefully.
Yes the glass is stronger than some give credit for and supports the weight within, though while under full water pressure it can and will crack or go bye bye with the right hit on the right spot and easier than one would think.
It can be done safely just go slow and make progress. It will take some time and even after you will be still finding smaller rocks of sand that will drive you nuts for a while that you will have to remove or grind back down.

I think you're onto something, I saw the sand hardening over a year ago when I first set up the tank. I was dosing back then and keeping a decently high alk/calcium level (9dkh/450ppm calcium).

I'll be in the same situation as you, planning to do a tank transfer with most of my current corals. I'll be using new sand, but I'll still have to dose very early on. I'll plan to keep a low alk (7-8) and keep an eye on the sand a bit better this time.
 
I think you're onto something, I saw the sand hardening over a year ago when I first set up the tank. I was dosing back then and keeping a decently high alk/calcium level (9dkh/450ppm calcium).

I'll be in the same situation as you, planning to do a tank transfer with most of my current corals. I'll be using new sand, but I'll still have to dose very early on. I'll plan to keep a low alk (7-8) and keep an eye on the sand a bit better this time.

yes I just helped a buddy transfer his 300 into a new 800 and he used all new sand.
He kept his alk at or close to 9 dkh. After we chatted a bit over a cold beverage he agreed to start SLOWLY lowering his DKH down to 8 and then finally 7.3 ish.
I would recommend you do the same before the transfer over a couple week to two month period.
The reason for this is to allow the dosing to be smaller amount of course but the More Natural levels are less likely to cause as much precipitation into the sand Vs elevated levels we keep.
He had No issues over the last four months while dosing two part and finally getting a Calcium Reactor online and dialed in slowly at the same time recently.
Just a very slight paper thin layer got a bit crusty but broke up easily with power head flow OR hand tools for the reef, and this was scuffed up to be from more of an organic ordeal rather than actual hardening.

He was also more mindful of the new sand soaking up a bit more DKH while new unlike older sand with organics and already balanced out with the water so he did not mind a bit of a swing and did not start trying to elevate it back up. For example he maintained @ 7.3 DKH and it would start slowly falling into the 6.7 range. He kept his dosing up as normal and did not increase it knowing his corals were not causing this from being transferred and growth tips not developing.
After the end of the second month into the third month the tank started to equalize back and the DKH came up slowly to Low 7's.
At this time he was also starting to see some more growth and would bump up the dose by a couple Ml every now and then. He also kept checking often for his sand hardening haha. A bit paranoid after ''supervising'' one of my cement crushing chores.
 
Last edited:
yes I just helped a buddy transfer his 300 into a new 800 and he used all new sand.
He kept his alk at or close to 9 dkh. After we chatted a bit over a cold beverage he agreed to start SLOWLY lowering his DKH down to 8 and then finally 7.3 ish.
I would recommend you do the same before the transfer over a couple week to two month period.
The reason for this is to allow the dosing to be smaller amount of course but the More Natural levels are less likely to cause as much precipitation into the sand Vs elevated levels we keep.
He had No issues over the last four months while dosing two part and finally getting a Calcium Reactor online and dialed in slowly at the same time recently.
Just a very slight paper thin layer got a bit crusty but broke up easily with power head flow OR hand tools for the reef, and this was scuffed up to be from more of an organic ordeal rather than actual hardening.

He was also more mindful of the new sand soaking up a bit more DKH while new unlike older sand with organics and already balanced out with the water so he did not mind a bit of a swing and did not start trying to elevate it back up. For example he maintained @ 7.3 DKH and it would start slowly falling into the 6.7 range. He kept his dosing up as normal and did not increase it knowing his corals were not causing this from being transferred and growth tips not developing.
After the end of the second month into the third month the tank started to equalize back and the DKH came up slowly to Low 7's.
At this time he was also starting to see some more growth and would bump up the dose by a couple Ml every now and then. He also kept checking often for his sand hardening haha. A bit paranoid after ''supervising'' one of my cement crushing chores.

I'm actually thinking of going barebottom to start and putting in sand later. But I have a melanurus and several conchs who would not be pleased with this situation... I have heard the wrasse can adjust to bare bottom tanks though.
 

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