Help!!! I think I have Ich

[Ian Baxter]

So, tank is almost 3 months old and it looks like my pork puffer and PBT May have ich. I see white dots on the puffer and little bumps on the PBT, but not white. I thought they may be micro bubbles as I changed my water flow which caused a lot of bubbles (happened before). Adjusted flow and came back from dinner and still the same. Just fed them and still eating like crazy. What can I do? I didn’t have the ability to QT and LFS said it was fine to add the fish when I did. PBT added 7/21 and puffer on 8/17. No other fish show any signs. It’s a FOWLR tank.

 

[Old Fritz]

puffers are ich magnets, and on porcupine puffers I notice its hard to see the ich on the fish itself and much easier to see on the fins. Since the tank is fowlr you can remove the live rock (or most of it) and sand and treat with copper of your choice (I prefer cupramine). Puffers are sensitive to copper so raise the levels of copper to therapeutic levels slowly. For instance cupramine has you get that therapeutic level within two days, however I make it four days for the more sensitive fish. Same thing goes for other brands. After that month treatment is over you can add carbon to the system to remove the copper and add your sand and live rock back into the tank.

You can also set up a qt tank and let your display tank go fallow for 76 days however I think that's a waste of time. You can just keep your sand and live rock in buckets for the month treatment or just get new rocks once treatment is over

 

[Zero1091]

You can also try metroplex + Focus combined in the food you give them.
Easier since you have fowlr.
Fixed my ich problem and I have a large amount of coral everything did well.

 

[Old Fritz]

You can also try metroplex + Focus combined in the food you give them.
Easier since you have fowlr.
Fixed my ich problem and I have a large amount of coral everything did well.

I don't want to be that guy but metro isn't for ich even if it says so on the box. That is the general consensus people have on this forum. It might've worked for you but I know people who have tried the same and it didn't work. Really the only two methods that work is copper and tank transfer method

 

[Ian Baxter]

puffers are ich magnets, and on porcupine puffers I notice its hard to see the ich on the fish itself and much easier to see on the fins. Since the tank is fowlr you can remove the live rock (or most of it) and sand and treat with copper of your choice (I prefer cupramine). Puffers are sensitive to copper so raise the levels of copper to therapeutic levels slowly. For instance cupramine has you get that therapeutic level within two days, however I make it four days for the more sensitive fish. Same thing goes for other brands. After that month treatment is over you can add carbon to the system to remove the copper and add your sand and live rock back into the tank.

You can also set up a qt tank and let your display tank go fallow for 76 days however I think that's a waste of time. You can just keep your sand and live rock in buckets for the month treatment or just get new rocks once treatment is over

I have a 120 gal with about 130lbs live rock. When I remove it, do I need flow in the storage bins?

 

[Old Fritz]

I have a 120 gal with about 130lbs live rock. When I remove it, do I need flow in the storage bins?

Oof that's a lot of rock to remove. You can keep it in storage bins with just water and no flow (I could be wrong on this so if someone else knows let me know). However if you want to keep the beneficial bacteria alive in the storage bins you will need to add something into the water that produces ammonia (you can literally just add fish food or frozen food).

You can keep some live rock in the tank for the fish to hide, however pvc is preferred as it doesn't absorb copper

 

[Ian Baxter]

Oof that's a lot of rock to remove. You can keep it in storage bins with just water and no flow (I could be wrong on this so if someone else knows let me know). However if you want to keep the beneficial bacteria alive in the storage bins you will need to add something into the water that produces ammonia (you can literally just add fish food or frozen food).

You can keep some live rock in the tank for the fish to hide, however pvc is preferred as it doesn't absorb copper

This totally sucks. I guess I moved too fast and feel horrible for the fish.

 

[Old Fritz]

This totally sucks. I guess I moved too fast and feel horrible for the fish.

It happens to everyone. Luckily you have a fowlr tank imagine if it was a reef tank lol.

But yeah like I said ich blends in on porcupine puffers and I almost bought one a couple years ago that had it. Easiest place to see ich on a fish is on its fins

 

[Zero1091]

I don't want to be that guy but metro isn't for ich even if it says so on the box. That is the general consensus people have on this forum. It might've worked for you but I know people who have tried the same and it didn't work. Really the only two methods that work is copper and tank transfer method

Aight all good, respect your opinion.
All I know is Ive had ich on two different occasions.
Used the metro and focus combo and boom 2 weeks later ich is gone.
I just figured id give the home boy options based on past experience.

 

[HotRocks]

Aight all good, respect your opinion.
All I know is Ive had ich on two different occasions.
Used the metro and focus combo and boom 2 weeks later ich is gone.
I just figured id give the home boy options based on past experience.

You still have ich, it’s still in your tank. The fish are managing to live with it.

There are a few ways to eliminate ich and metronidazole isn’t one.

TTM, Hypo, copper/CP are suitable methods but there really isn’t a reef safe option.

 

[Terry Mattson]

Best thing I every did was set up a qt. Treat fish there. Learned the hard way for sure. Petco typically has tanks for 1$ per gallon. So in my case set up 20 gallon. All new fish go through the qt. If no disease then treat with paraguard. One fish, tang, got ich followed by bacterial outbreak. Treated with appropriate medications and after treatment is now king of the DT.

 

[Old Fritz]

Best thing I every did was set up a qt. Treat fish there. Learned the hard way for sure. Petco typically has tanks for 1$ per gallon. So in my case set up 20 gallon. All new fish go through the qt. If no disease then treat with paraguard. One fish, tang, got ich followed by bacterial outbreak. Treated with appropriate medications and after treatment is now king of the DT.

petco's dollar per gallon sale ended again. Although I heard it will start again late September

 

[Sashaka]

Even if no other fish show signs of ick, it's in the tank and can rear its ugly head again at any time. I would definately use a known and proven cure such as copper, CP, or the tank transfer method. Here is a link to access info on these methods as well as gain some understanding about fish illnesses and other treatments. You can trust this information as it is from the top experts here in fish illness and treatments. I have the page bookmarked! https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/treatment-options-index.247573/

I have a 180 gal FOWLR and have treated with both copper and CP for ick. I use Copper Power. I've used it without issues even on puffers, but like Old Fritz, I bring the Copper Power at 2. ppm and ramp it up to that dose over two days. You can remove sand and rock as suggested earlier and put all in 50 gal Brute garbage can with a circulating pump to move the water and a heater to keep the temp stable so you don't lose all the good bacteria and go through a big cycle again, but it's just as easy or easier to put the fish in the Brute and treat them separately in the can rather than disrupt all the sand and rock in the MD. Use an ammonia badge (not a liquid ammonia tester) to monitor and do water changes as needed. I usually add some media from the MD to keep the sick tank cycled. Let the MD go fallow for 28 days. That way if you ever decide to turn the MD into something other than a FOWLR, you don't have to worry about residual copper killing CUC, anemones, and or corals later.
Good Luck!

 

[Ian Baxter]

So I ran to Petco before they closed and picked up Microbe-lift Herbtana. Says to dose for 10 days. It was all they had.

 

[Ian Baxter]

Even if no other fish show signs of ick, it's in the tank and can rear its ugly head again at any time. I would definately use a known and proven cure such as copper, CP, or the tank transfer method. Here is a link to access info on these methods as well as gain some understanding about fish illnesses and other treatments. You can trust this information as it is from the top experts here in fish illness and treatments. I have the page bookmarked! https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/treatment-options-index.247573/

I have a 180 gal FOWLR and have treated with both copper and CP for ick. I use Copper Power. I've used it without issues even on puffers, but like Old Fritz, I bring the Copper Power at 2. ppm and ramp it up to that dose over two days. You can remove sand and rock as suggested earlier and put all in 50 gal Brute garbage can with a circulating pump to move the water and a heater to keep the temp stable so you don't lose all the good bacteria and go through a big cycle again, but it's just as easy or easier to put the fish in the Brute and treat them separately in the can rather than disrupt all the sand and rock in the MD. Use an ammonia badge (not a liquid ammonia tester) to monitor and do water changes as needed. I usually add some media from the MD to keep the sick tank cycled. Let the MD go fallow for 28 days. That way if you ever decide to turn the MD into something other than a FOWLR, you don't have to worry about residual copper killing CUC, anemones, and or corals later.
Good Luck!

So right now I started dosing the stuff I got from Petco last night. I'm not sure if it will work and I think I have two other options.
1) Get a QT tank up and start Copper (CP seems a little hard to get). My question would be, how big of a tank would I need as the PBT and Puffer are about 4-5 inches each since they would need to be in the tank for about 75 days for the ich to die off in the DT. Also should I put all of my fish in there too?
I currently have: PBT, Puffer, 2 Clowns, 2 Azure Damselfish, 1 Cardinal, 1 Diamond Goby, 1 cleaner shrimp, 1 Peppermint shrimp, 5 nassarius snails, 1 Sand Sifting Starfish, and a Bubble Tip Nem.
2) Just dose the main tank with Copper? Are my CUC and Nem able to get ICH? If not, I could probably move them to a QT and dose the main tank with Copper.

 

[Qasimja]

ich only effects fish so if you want to treat properly all the fish need to be removed and treated with copper and leave the tank with only inverts and corals for 76 days i believe i know thats a really big headache but if you want to truly be sure the ich parasite is gone thats the only sure fire 100% method to do it

 

[Ian Baxter]

ich only effects fish so if you want to treat properly all the fish need to be removed and treated with copper and leave the tank with only inverts and corals for 76 days i believe i know thats a really big headache but if you want to truly be sure the ich parasite is gone thats the only sure fire 100% method to do it

Perfect! That's what I needed to hear. Now I need to figure out how big of a QT tank I need and how to catch those little fish in my 120 gal

 

[Sashaka]

I currently have: PBT, Puffer, 2 Clowns, 2 Azure Damselfish, 1 Cardinal, 1 Diamond Goby,

You don't need to treat the inverts and nem. Just leave them in the MD. Feed sparingly once or twice a week to keep the cycle going and feed the invert life still in the tank.

I was like you when I first started in saltwater. I tried other methods first to eliminate ick from my MD, but none of them worked. If you are serious about getting rid of ick from your MD , follow one of the 3 proven methods to eliminate it once and for all. The truth is, some people are happy just managing ick rather than eradicating it from their MD, and they are comfortable with that choice. It works for them. Some are more successful managing than others. I hate losing even one fish. You'll have to decide what works for you. I got sick of ick coming back anytime I added a new fish, a power outage occurred, or some other stressful even such as a PH drop happened. If you're in this hobby for long enough, you'll soon learn that #$%^ happens to the best well-kept tanks at some point. If a problem can be solved, not managed, I'm going to solve it...but that's just me. Keep in mind that if ick is in your tank, you have two fish that are known ick magnets.

With that said, I wouldn't put the two larger fish in anything less than a 20 gal. a 29 or 30 gal would be better. Because you have 9 fish, I would shoot for at least a 40 gal tank if you can swing it. If not, nothing less than a 30 gal and I would put in a LOT of different sized pvc for them to hide in as they would definitely be overcrowded and you don't want any bickering. I'm lucky. I have a 75 gal tank to treat my whole 180 gal family of fish if needed, but even that was still too cramped for the size fish I have. The good news is that if you can keep them from fighting with a lot of pvc and keep water quality from going south from the over crowding, it is a temporary housing so it's probably just fine for the short time you'll have them together. You can always grab a cheap 10 gal or purchase a divider and section off a fish or two if some are so stressed they stop eating or just won't play nice.

The personality of your fish will also dictate how big the tank should be. For example, if your puffer feels cramped, it could turn on the smaller fish and take a chunk out of one. My 6-7 inch porcupine puffer bit the head off my flame hawkfish in a 75 gal fish tank. My Toby puffer preferred to stay hidden in a large PVC pipe and only came out when I fed the tank. Tangs are often active swimmers and need room to move around...but again, personality plays a part. I have a yellow eyed kole and it pretty much sticks to a rock formation that has multiple holes to swim around in my 180 gal tank and it does that instead of free swimming the length of the tank. The smaller fish you mentioned probably don't need as much room as the PBT or puffer, just appropriate sized pvc pipes to hide in. Others here may have different suggestions. This is just what I would do in your circumstances. Good luck!

 

[Ian Baxter]

You don't need to treat the inverts and nem. Just leave them in the MD. Feed sparingly once or twice a week to keep the cycle going and feed the invert life still in the tank.

I was like you when I first started in saltwater. I tried other methods first to eliminate ick from my MD, but none of them worked. If you are serious about getting rid of ick from your MD , follow one of the 3 proven methods to eliminate it once and for all. The truth is, some people are happy just managing ick rather than eradicating it from their MD, and they are comfortable with that choice. It works for them. Some are more successful managing than others. I hate losing even one fish. You'll have to decide what works for you. I got sick of ick coming back anytime I added a new fish, a power outage occurred, or some other stressful even such as a PH drop happened. If you're in this hobby for long enough, you'll soon learn that #$%^ happens to the best well-kept tanks at some point. If a problem can be solved, not managed, I'm going to solve it...but that's just me. Keep in mind that if ick is in your tank, you have two fish that are known ick magnets.

With that said, I wouldn't put the two larger fish in anything less than a 20 gal. a 29 or 30 gal would be better. Because you have 9 fish, I would shoot for at least a 40 gal tank if you can swing it. If not, nothing less than a 30 gal and I would put in a LOT of different sized pvc for them to hide in as they would definitely be overcrowded and you don't want any bickering. I'm lucky. I have a 75 gal tank to treat my whole 180 gal family of fish if needed, but even that was still too cramped for the size fish I have. The good news is that if you can keep them from fighting with a lot of pvc and keep water quality from going south from the over crowding, it is a temporary housing so it's probably just fine for the short time you'll have them together. You can always grab a cheap 10 gal or purchase a divider and section off a fish or two if some are so stressed they stop eating or just won't play nice.

The personality of your fish will also dictate how big the tank should be. For example, if your puffer feels cramped, it could turn on the smaller fish and take a chunk out of one. My 6-7 inch porcupine puffer bit the head off my flame hawkfish in a 75 gal fish tank. My Toby puffer preferred to stay hidden in a large PVC pipe and only came out when I fed the tank. Tangs are often active swimmers and need room to move around...but again, personality plays a part. I have a yellow eyed kole and it pretty much sticks to a rock formation that has multiple holes to swim around in my 180 gal tank and it does that instead of free swimming the length of the tank. The smaller fish you mentioned probably don't need as much room as the PBT or puffer, just appropriate sized pvc pipes to hide in. Others here may have different suggestions. This is just what I would do in your circumstances. Good luck!

Thanks for the advice. I’m definitely going to get a QT. I’ve dosed my tank with the stuff from petco for 4 days and there was no sign of ich on the fish today, but I know it’s still in there. Got home from work and my PBT and Cardinal both died. No signs of ich either. The puffer came out of the rocks and did a few weird shakes and ate like normal. Im thinking there’s something else in the tank aside from ich.

 

[4FordFamily]

With the number of spots and size looking like micro bubbles, and the fatalities particularly of a cardinal I’m thinking you’re dealing with velvet. It’s much more deadly and you’ll need to act quickly. It’s treated the same way as ich.