Help!! Ich or velvet

[reef-geek]

Got a midas blenny from Petco and infected the whole tank, all fish are doing fine, eating as pig like before, the blenny and clown had a few spots and now I can't see many so I think they are getting better, however the purple tang looks pretty bad today, I am getting a 20L to copper med all fish, but I've never done it before, any tips will be appriciated.

fish list:
purple tang
clown (nemo)
midas blenny
cleaner wrasse
capender flasher wrasse
hawk fish

a few questions:
can I use tap water for QT? my tap water is about 350ppm
what med should I use, was think about coppersafe but don't know if there are better options
want to quickly cycle a QT tank, I can get a few filter media from the DT and get some chaeto from a friend, I have a AC20, will that be enough for all the fish?
what salinity? 1.025 or 1.009?
what should I do with the DT? leave the corals and cuc in?

Thanks all.

 

[Not an IT guy]

Ich. You can try to use Tim’s for cycling but it’s not looking good

 

[davidcalgary29]

Got a midas blenny from Petco and infected the whole tank, all fish are doing fine, eating as pig like before, the blenny and clown had a few spots and now I can't see many so I think they are getting better, however the purple tang looks pretty bad today, I am getting a 20L to copper med all fish, but I've never done it before, any tips will be appriciated.

fish list:
purple tang
clown (nemo)
midas blenny
cleaner wrasse
capender flasher wrasse
hawk fish

a few questions:
can I use tap water for QT? my tap water is about 350ppm
what med should I use, was think about coppersafe but don't know if there are better options
want to quickly cycle a QT tank, I can get a few filter media from the DT and get some chaeto from a friend, I have a AC20, will that be enough for all the fish?
what salinity? 1.025 or 1.009?
what should I do with the DT? leave the corals and cuc in?

Thanks all.

You don't need to cycle your QT tank before you use it as such. Get an ammonia badge, monitor constantly, and be prepared to have saltwater with the appropriate copper level on hand if you need to have a quick water change. A high range copper checker (Hanna) is necessary for this, as you'll need to maintain a steady copper level above a minimum range for a fairly long period of time. You'll also need to ramp up copper dosing over a period of days -- not hours -- or you'll be at risk of killing your fish.

You can try to treat your fish with hyposalinity at 1.009 ppt, but you'll need to monitor levels very carefully, and again -- reduce salinity at a safe but slow rate.

Yes, you can use filter media from an existing tank to help with nitrifying bacteria. I typically keep those ceramic balls/gems in the sumps of all my tanks just in case I need to seed a QT with nitrifying bacteria.

Yes, keep all your inverts/CUC in your display while you keep it fallow for the 45 or 72 (76) day period. This is a great time to introduce new inverts and coral into your display, as you can treat this time as a quarantine for new organisms (aside from fish, of course).

Yes, a 20g will do for your fish. But a garbage can or tote can also do if you run out of space. Remember to include a hang-on filter, heater, and airstone in each of your QTs. HOB filters may not provide enough aeration for your needs.

 

[reef-geek]

Thanks so much for the detailed answer, I plan to do a 20g water change and use the used water in the QT to start, and then move all fish in, do you think coppersafe is a good choice to start? I've borrowed a hanna checker. how long do I need to wait for the fish to adjust to the new environment before adding coppersafe? I plan to take 3 days to get to 1.5, will that be enough?

also, should I do a freshwater dip before moving them to qt? will that be more harm than good to the fish?

 

[Not an IT guy]

Yes. Jay H has a write up on how to treat with coppersafe. Good luck

 

[DaddyFish]

Thanks so much for the detailed answer, I plan to do a 20g water change and use the used water in the QT to start, and then move all fish in, do you think coppersafe is a good choice to start? I've borrowed a hanna checker. how long do I need to wait for the fish to adjust to the new environment before adding coppersafe? I plan to take 3 days to get to 1.5, will that be enough?

also, should I do a freshwater dip before moving them to qt? will that be more harm than good to the fish?

If you are using water from the infested DT to start the QT, then don't bother with a FW dip. That defeats the purpose.

There's no reason you have to use "used" water for the QT. A FW dip will instantly reduce the number of active parasites on the fish and give some immediate relief. Make the transfer from FW to your QT setup with proper salinity/temp/pH to match the former DT environment. Or most species can easily withstand a .002 shift down in salinity when going from DT to FW Dip to QT.

Start CopperSafe at half dose, targeting 1.0 on the Hanna checker. Then 24-hours later bring it on up to 1.5-2.0.

You can also lower salinity in the QT to 1.020 over a couple days to give the fish a helping hand in recovery by reducing the load on their systems to maintain homeostasis (osmotic balance). Be sure to monitor both Ammonia and pH carefully and actively manage both during QT with water changes etc.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Got a midas blenny from Petco and infected the whole tank, all fish are doing fine, eating as pig like before, the blenny and clown had a few spots and now I can't see many so I think they are getting better, however the purple tang looks pretty bad today, I am getting a 20L to copper med all fish, but I've never done it before, any tips will be appriciated.

fish list:
purple tang
clown (nemo)
midas blenny
cleaner wrasse
capender flasher wrasse
hawk fish

a few questions:
can I use tap water for QT? my tap water is about 350ppm
what med should I use, was think about coppersafe but don't know if there are better options
want to quickly cycle a QT tank, I can get a few filter media from the DT and get some chaeto from a friend, I have a AC20, will that be enough for all the fish?
what salinity? 1.025 or 1.009?
what should I do with the DT? leave the corals and cuc in?

Thanks all.

This is going to be REALLY tough to treat. It is a moderate case of marine ich, Cryptocaryon. The trouble is, your treatment tank, as you pointed out, has to be set up on the fly. If you have any filter media in your display (Siporex, anything like that) that can be moved over, that will help supply beneficial bacteria. Otherwise, you will need to use "bacteria in a bottle" products like Dr. Tim's. You need to keep the ammonia level below 0.25 ppm. Doing that with water changes is going to be virtually impossible with that number of fish in a 20 gallon tank - the ammonia can spike up to .5 to a full ppm per day.

You should use coppersafe and a good copper test kit (not the API kit). Using coppersafe, get the levels up in one day. You calculate a half dose, add it to the tank, let it circulate and then test the tank to ensure you are at a half dose. Then, add the remaining copper needed to get you to a full dose, let it circulate and test again to confirm. Hold the fish at this amount of copper for 30 days. The trouble is, ich will still be in your display - you won't be able to return fish to it for 45 to 75 days depending on the water temperature.

Another option would be to skip the copper, and lower the specific gravity/salinity of your treatment tank to 1.009 to 1.010 over three days. You need a VERY accurate hydrometer for this. You would hold the fish at this salinity for 35 days and then over 5 days, return it to full salinity. You will still need to house the fish outside of your DT for 45 to 75 days though.

Finally, you really need to get the fish into treatment today. Don't wait, as at some point, the disease goes into geometric progression, the numbers increase greatly and it becomes much more difficult to treat.

Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Thanks so much for the detailed answer, I plan to do a 20g water change and use the used water in the QT to start, and then move all fish in, do you think coppersafe is a good choice to start? I've borrowed a hanna checker. how long do I need to wait for the fish to adjust to the new environment before adding coppersafe? I plan to take 3 days to get to 1.5, will that be enough?

also, should I do a freshwater dip before moving them to qt? will that be more harm than good to the fish?

Please see my other post - don't delay on ramping the copper up. That is old advice based on ionic copper/citric acid solutions - coppersafe can be dosed all at once, especially since you have a Hanna to test with. Be sure not to use ammonia removers during copper treatment, they are suspected to cause toxicity with copper meds that are bound to amines. Also, that is another point - all three main copper products will give you an ammonia reading when first used - Coppersafe can read 0.20 to 0.40 ppm.

I would not do a FW dip on the fish, it has limited effectiveness against ich and only adds to the stress. If you suspect your fish *might* have flukes, then a FW dip is a good idea to buy you some time for the copper treatment, and then you can dose them with Prazipro, but I don't see any evidence of flukes here...

Jay

 

[DaddyFish]

@reef-geek If you want help with managing hyposalinity feel free to PM me. I just went through the process on a 215-gal DT to fight off an ich infestation. There are a few things worth noting to watch and be prepared to handle.

 

[reef-geek]

Thanks for all the great info, I plan to do a QT for 60 days, wish me luck!

BTW, I noticed I have missed my leopard wrasse in the fish list, should I add a bowl of sand in the QT?

 

[davidcalgary29]

Thanks for all the great info, I plan to do a QT for 60 days, wish me luck!

BTW, I noticed I have missed my leopard wrasse in the fish list, should I add a bowl of sand in the QT?

Yes. If you treat with copper, though, be aware that substrate will absorb it over time. You'll have to monitor this quite carefully to ensure that levels don't fall below therapeutic levels.

 

[Mmar2385]

Got a midas blenny from Petco and infected the whole tank, all fish are doing fine, eating as pig like before, the blenny and clown had a few spots and now I can't see many so I think they are getting better, however the purple tang looks pretty bad today, I am getting a 20L to copper med all fish, but I've never done it before, any tips will be appriciated.

fish list:
purple tang
clown (nemo)
midas blenny
cleaner wrasse
capender flasher wrasse
hawk fish

a few questions:
can I use tap water for QT? my tap water is about 350ppm
what med should I use, was think about coppersafe but don't know if there are better options
want to quickly cycle a QT tank, I can get a few filter media from the DT and get some chaeto from a friend, I have a AC20, will that be enough for all the fish?
what salinity? 1.025 or 1.009?
what should I do with the DT? leave the corals and cuc in?

Thanks all.

In August my purple tang had ich. But she got really lucky because two of my cleaner shrimp ate the ich off of her body. He or she would purposely go up to a shrimp, idle and the shrimp would get all over her eating/picking the ich off. Once I saw that her beautiful purple color was free of all white spots, as an extra preventative measure, I removed all the livestock into another tank including the corals, I took out almost all the water about 90% of it, took out all the sand and replaced it with all new live sand, filled it up with reef crystals and RODI water and now he's been ich free ever since! Mine is a 125 gallon so that took me a whole 2 weeks to complete since I work full time.

 

[reef-geek]

In August my purple tang had ich. But she got really lucky because two of my cleaner shrimp ate the ich off of her body. He or she would purposely go up to a shrimp, idle and the shrimp would get all over her eating/picking the ich off. Once I saw that her beautiful purple color was free of all white spots, as an extra preventative measure, I removed all the livestock into another tank including the corals, I took out almost all the water about 90% of it, took out all the sand and replaced it with all new live sand, filled it up with reef crystals and RODI water and now he's been ich free ever since! Mine is a 125 gallon so that took me a whole 2 weeks to complete since I work full time.

Great result! keep him/her well fed since it may come back.

 

[Mmar2385]

Great result! keep him/her well fed since it may come back.

Oh yes, she feeds on a variety of foods such as marine flakes, mysis shrimp, brine, worms, sea weed, krill, plankton and the reef frenzy frozen food

 

[Tamberav]

In August my purple tang had ich. But she got really lucky because two of my cleaner shrimp ate the ich off of her body. He or she would purposely go up to a shrimp, idle and the shrimp would get all over her eating/picking the ich off. Once I saw that her beautiful purple color was free of all white spots, as an extra preventative measure, I removed all the livestock into another tank including the corals, I took out almost all the water about 90% of it, took out all the sand and replaced it with all new live sand, filled it up with reef crystals and RODI water and now he's been ich free ever since! Mine is a 125 gallon so that took me a whole 2 weeks to complete since I work full time.

Everything I have been told/read says cleaner shrimp can not eat ich as it is buried deep and the spots we see on fish is just their own mucus/immune reaction to the ich. Ofc a cleaner shrimp would eat any mucus/dying material. Luckily ich is something that can be sent into remission.

 

[Mmar2385]

Everything I have been told/read says cleaner shrimp can not eat ich as it is buried deep and the spots we see on fish is just their own mucus/immune reaction to the ich. Ofc a cleaner shrimp would eat any mucus/dying material. Luckily ich is something that can be sent into remission.

I did nothing different to the tank and saw shrimp picking at her. Thanks.

 

[reef-geek]

I saw my cleaner wrasse picks on my purple tang too, not sure if that can help with the ich.

 

[Tamberav]

I did nothing different to the tank and saw shrimp picking at her. Thanks.

causation vs correlation.

My bet is the cleaner still helpful in other ways like lowering stress and helping prevent secondary bacterial infections and such.