Help identify ich or fluke or something else

[moncheng]

Help to identity ich or fluke or something else. He has been scratch a lot and hiding .stopped eating. I've got him out to the QT but not sure what to treat yet. Got other two fish in the tank also scratching for a good while but looks healthy and not spots. I did a fresh water dip on him tonight after I finally got him out from my tank. But I only dip him for a few seconds as I saw he was laying down not moving so I figure he was already stressed too much when moving him out so I put him in QT. I will try another dip tomorrow I guess. But for the meantime I'm hoping to identify what he is having to start treatment asap since he stopped eating for 3 days already.

 

[Fishfreak2009]

In your last picture it looks like 2 ich spots on the pectoral fin of the gramma. All fish in the tank should be pulled and treated with copper while the tank sits fallow for the appropriate amount of time.

 

[moncheng]

Yes I am going to pull all of them out. Gramma is the one that stopped eating so I figured to get him out first. I have all my rock glued so it's very hard to catch them. The others still eating so I'm hoping I can catch them with traps. I was not sure earlier and he wasn't looking great so I dosed parazi. Should I wait for a certain time before I can switch to copper ? Also ideally I would want to treat all fish at once. But depending on how soon I can catch them all, can I start one fish ahead of time then added more fish into it ? I really don't know much of QT process. Do I keep treating copper for 72days and more or do I just treat them the first week or so and then just keep them in QT for more than 72 days ?

 

[Projects with Sam]

The new guidelines are 45 days I think. Check Jay's sticky posts at the top of this forum for treatment recommendations.

 

[fishguy242]

hi,may want to freshwater dip as moving ??
clock will start to go fallow once last fish is removed, 45-60 days ??
treatment ?? ,lets ask the Dr.
best wishes.
@Jay Hemdal

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

Is your water.green?
-d

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

Do you have flow?

 

[Unitylover]

scratching sounds like flukes, watch a video on a freshwater dip and do one. If you see something like fish scales on the bottom of the container, its flukes. If not, I have no clue.

 

[Unitylover]

@vetteguy53081 @Jay Hemdal
they're good at treating flukes, and jay is good at naming the species after a freshwater dip

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Yes I am going to pull all of them out. Gramma is the one that stopped eating so I figured to get him out first. I have all my rock glued so it's very hard to catch them. The others still eating so I'm hoping I can catch them with traps. I was not sure earlier and he wasn't looking great so I dosed parazi. Should I wait for a certain time before I can switch to copper ? Also ideally I would want to treat all fish at once. But depending on how soon I can catch them all, can I start one fish ahead of time then added more fish into it ? I really don't know much of QT process. Do I keep treating copper for 72days and more or do I just treat them the first week or so and then just keep them in QT for more than 72 days ?

Hi,

I don't see any clear ich spots in the photo. If it does have ich it is a light case and that would NOT stop the fish from feeding, so something else is going on here.

The most stressful part of a FW dip is the catching of the fish, so dipping the fish for less than the full 5 minutes doesn't really reduce the stress that much and it is ineffective. Then the thought is: if a fish dies during or right after a FW dip (and some do) that means the fish was too far gone to save anyway. That said, dips really only buy you a bit of time, they don't cure the flukes.

I would say the gramma probably has a bad case of flukes. The other fish may also have flukes, just aren't showing as many symptoms. I would treat all of the fish 2x with Prazipro, but then watch the gramma carefully for signs of ich - more numerous white salt grain-like spots that seem to come and go and change location.

Jay

 

[moncheng]

The new guidelines are 45 days I think. Check Jay's sticky posts at the top of this forum for treatment recommendations.

thanks, i will check that out.

hi,may want to freshwater dip as moving ??
clock will start to go fallow once last fish is removed, 45-60 days ??
treatment ?? ,lets ask the Dr.
best wishes.
@Jay Hemdal

yes, that's what I was planing fallow starts when last fish removed.

Is your water.green?
-d

Im not sure actually. but what i know is that i do have algae on all my rock right now and when lights on it gave water reflection of green, but if i take water out it's not green. unfortunately Im newbie and made couple critical mistakes when i first started. they all driven by impatience. i did not lights off for 4 months and did not quarantine. lesson learned, always be patient.

Do you have flow?

yes, both DT(2 powerheads and hob filter. maybe around 2000gph in 75G tank) and QT(1 dc wavemaker and 1 hob filter in 29g tank) has flow

scratching sounds like flukes, watch a video on a freshwater dip and do one. If you see something like fish scales on the bottom of the container, its flukes. If not, I have no clue.

does ich not cause scratching? i just did a dip for 4 minutes today, not seeing a lot of stuff, but i do see a couple of tiny stuff I'm not sure if that from my net or fish.

@vetteguy53081 @Jay Hemdal
they're good at treating flukes, and jay is good at naming the species after a freshwater dip

I just did a freshwater dip for 4 mins today, i will post some photo of what's in the water, im not sure if they from net or fish as i forgot to use a clean net today :shake_my_head

Hi,

I don't see any clear ich spots in the photo. If it does have ich it is a light case and that would NOT stop the fish from feeding, so something else is going on here.

The most stressful part of a FW dip is the catching of the fish, so dipping the fish for less than the full 5 minutes doesn't really reduce the stress that much and it is ineffective. Then the thought is: if a fish dies during or right after a FW dip (and some do) that means the fish was too far gone to save anyway. That said, dips really only buy you a bit of time, they don't cure the flukes.

I would say the gramma probably has a bad case of flukes. The other fish may also have flukes, just aren't showing as many symptoms. I would treat all of the fish 2x with Prazipro, but then watch the gramma carefully for signs of ich - more numerous white salt grain-like spots that seem to come and go and change location.

Jay

thanks a lot Jay, that makes a lot of sense about dipping. I did a dip 4minutes today, i guess i should have dip it a bit longer if i saw your post before dipping. I've started 1 dose of Prazipro last night although i dont see any changes on the fish, i was able to get a video of it plus some photos of stuff in the dip water hopefully that can help to identify further if it is fluke.

 

[moncheng]

post a short video of how gramma is swimming and toward the end of the video he/she swims toward to camera to give a bit better view.

and few photos from dipping. there are some hairs and debris are from my dirty net for sure, but i did see something that could possibly came from the fish. so let me know what you think if they look familiar to you guys and @Jay Hemdal

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

post a short video of how gramma is swimming and toward the end of the video he/she swims toward to camera to give a bit better view.

and few photos from dipping. there are some hairs and debris are from my dirty net for sure, but i did see something that could possibly came from the fish. so let me know what you think if they look familiar to you guys and @Jay Hemdal

In the tank, I see a lot of current blowing the gramma around (likely because it is weakened) I also see some uneaten food. Be sure to monitor the ammonia in that tank!

Debris in nets used for dips can cause all sorts of artifacts to show up. Only one species of fluke, Neobenedenia, can be seen in dip water without a microscope and this material doesn't look like that. Doesn't mean the gramma doesn't have flukes, just not the species you can see.

Jay

 

[moncheng]

In the tank, I see a lot of current blowing the gramma around (likely because it is weakened) I also see some uneaten food. Be sure to monitor the ammonia in that tank!

Debris in nets used for dips can cause all sorts of artifacts to show up. Only one species of fluke, Neobenedenia, can be seen in dip water without a microscope and this material doesn't look like that. Doesn't mean the gramma doesn't have flukes, just not the species you can see.

Jay

understood. I guess i will just turn off the wavemaker (it was on the lowest speed already) and just leave the hob filter which is Aqueon quiet flow 75 that's is rated for up to 90gal with 400 GPH. and put an airstone in there. does that sound okay for the flow for a 29 gallon?
i will definitely monitor the Ammonia ( just checked earlier it was fine). thanks a lot for your help

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

understood. I guess i will just turn off the wavemaker (it was on the lowest speed already) and just leave the hob filter which is Aqueon quiet flow 75 that's is rated for up to 90gal with 400 GPH. and put an airstone in there. does that sound okay for the flow for a 29 gallon?
i will definitely monitor the Ammonia ( just checked earlier it was fine). thanks a lot for your help

Or, direct the wave maker away from where the gramma hangs out? Make sure the air stone is running good and is placed near the bottom.
Jay

 

[moncheng]

Or, direct the wave maker away from where the gramma hangs out? Make sure the air stone is running good and is placed near the bottom.
Jay

it's been 4 days . gramma still not eating. should I add the second dose of prazipro tomorrow on day 5 or switch to copper?