Help! Is my sand bed dying?

[Salty1962]

Sounds like a cyanide sufl issue. I personally would throw out the old, with all of the nasty stuff you stirred up, and go with new. Don't take the chance! JMO I never re-used old sand, too many problems down the road, Remember - What you put in you have to have a way to get out

 

[Apkpswtank]

Tank pic thanks guys I'm going to leave it alone for a little n c if things get better or worse what is a time frame I should expect the black under the tank to start to get better if it is going too?

 

[Wiz]

In the example I posted you saw a fair amount of change in a month. So I would think you'll get an idea in a week or two if its getting better or worse.

 

[brandon429]

Nice rock and it's pretty clean up top! The patches come and go over time with varying conditions. My sandbed would do shades of red, gray light gold it did shift over time. When coralline algae mixed in and on the glass it looked nice. Your tank looks nice and clean, don't blame you for not wanting to part it out again. That coralline live rock is exceptionally dense

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I wasn't on Brandon's bandwagon to begin with, all the work and whatnot, but man this forced compliance thing has really really worked for me, I live a busy life and don't always have the time for "traditional" maintenance.


But man I started my nuvo 8 with his sand rinse method and followed his threads and advice from the shadows. And I'll just be honest , this 8 gallons stays algae free essientally and even with the stock 8w led it's easily the best looking tank in the house.

Ive used the same technique as well. Before Brandon and I met. I use a DSB though too as its just a different technique/method for different livestock. I have a huge fuge, twin DSB, high organics and micro algaes in the water colum. And mussels that are 5 years old. Very little nuisance algae in the DT, lots in the sump. No cyano.. well.... once in a while.
I use the DSB to digest(cycle) and produce bugs and Micro algaes for the animals.
I feed a lot have an underrated skimmer. It works. jus different.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

If they work, makes one wonder why carbon dosing, ATS, biopellets, azno3, gfo, refugiums were ever needed?

The cost a lot of money. are easier than good husbandry and personal responsibility, and make it easier for lazy people to get into the hobby..
Like an iphone

 

[Apkpswtank]

How beneficial is it for me with my DSB to put chaeto in my sump and start growing copepods? Are they extremely beneficial to a DSB? Or are they just good for a tank in general and will not make a huge difference for the DSB?

 

[Wiz]

Pods are fantastic as a food source. They may shift the top layer of sand but will not do much for a dsb. The chaeto will take up some nitrate and phos. And you can sell or trade it as it grows. Pods will eat some waste. But overall I would say they are beneficial on there own but have little to do with a dsb

 

[Blizz]

How important is it to have a Deep Sand Bed if you have decent amount of live rock and a refugium???

blizz

 

[Wiz]

This is highly debatable. Even though I am very Pro deep sand bed, I don't think that it is necessary at all. My personal opinion is that it is helpful and more natural. But that does not mean that you cannot have a fantastic reef without one. The only answer to that is a lot of research and your own opinion. Good luck

 

[Bill Bolton]

Your issue is simple. You need more critters to stir up the sand bed. You need a few stars, a conch or 3, maybe a sea cucumber, and a sand sifter goby wouldn't hurt.
You have what looks to be a deep sandbed. These depend on being stirred by snails, stars and other critters, which will eat the detritus and keep things in line.
I could get into the way a deep sandbed works, but I don't have time, since I am at work ATMOSPHERE! My best advice is to use a power head to blow the trash off the rock, and do a 50% water change. Test parameters and if levels are good, buy and introduce a proper, large clean up crew ASAP. Once this is done.....don't touch or disturb a deep sandbed. They work wonders, but have to be set up properly.

 

[Wiz]

No no no. Please research the deep sand bed before doing that. Sand sifters such as stars or gobies are bad. Read this first. Please
http://www.ronshimek.com/deep_sand_beds.html

Your issue is simple. You need more critters to stir up the sand bed. You need a few stars, a conch or 3, maybe a sea cucumber, and a sand sifter goby wouldn't hurt.
You have what looks to be a deep sandbed. These depend on being stirred by snails, stars and other critters, which will eat the detritus and keep things in line.
I could get into the way a deep sandbed works, but I don't have time, since I am at work ATMOSPHERE! My best advice is to use a power head to blow the trash off the rock, and do a 50% water change. Test parameters and if levels are good, buy and introduce a proper, large clean up crew ASAP. Once this is done.....don't touch or disturb a deep sandbed. They work wonders, but have to be set up properly.

 

[Wiz]

Bill, no offense but you are a bit off. Read that article if you care to. Very helpful!

 

[Bill Bolton]

Not only have I read that article, and it says worms, stars and hundreds more critters are an integral part of deep sandbed health, I have talked extensively with not only Dr. Ron, but Tony Calvo, Eric Borneman, Ben Birdsill and other top researchers in the reef hobby. I personally have kept DSB reef tanks since 1994, and have only had these issues when clean up crew was lacking.
Keep in mind, just because someone is new to this forum, does not mean they are new to the hobby. I have kept reefs longer than many here have been alive.
I am always willing to learn new things though!

 

[Wiz]

No offense again my friend. But you did not read it well. Taken directly from the articl.

. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD YOU ADD "SAND-SIFTING" ANIMALS SUCH AS BURROWING SEA STARS OR SOME GOBIES.

And your explanation of how a dsb workd does not agree with the articl. But that's my understanding. And I've only been reefing 10 years. So take it or leave it I guess.

Not only have I read that article, and it says worms, stars and hundreds more critters are an integral part of deep sandbed health, I have talked extensively with not only Dr. Ron, but Tony Calvo, Eric Borneman, Ben Birdsill and other top researchers in the reef hobby. I personally have kept DSB reef tanks since 1994, and have only had these issues when clean up crew was lacking.
Keep in mind, just because someone is new to this forum, does not mean they are new to the hobby. I have kept reefs longer than many here have been alive.
I am always willing to learn new things though!

 

[Wiz]

Also I did not even consider whether or not you are old or new to Reefing. Nor did I noticed that you are new to this forum. What I did notice was that your information is incorrect according to that article. And your understanding of how the DSb Works is not the same as mine. And even with that information I still say you could be right. I may be wrong. The Op can read the article for themselves and decide.

 

[brandon429]

I love how r2r is freest on the web to hash out differences good debate is beneficial. remember tangling once for 13 pages around a dirty old sandbed but the difference was that tank had years-long invasions was trying correct... the OPs tank here is actually capped by clean sand. An insulating layer.

Whether or not that's ideal to conceal, with or without worms varies among techniques... It shouldn't make the tank run poorly in this case above as long as it's stratified like this. Exposing its contents and dealing with cycles of growth above tank are valid methods too, no harm for either kind. I've come to see tanks in distress likely didn't isolate layers, they mixed somehow and benefit from full cleaning technique

Those without problems don't want to disturb something that's been working fine...mine went nine yrs once can understand the hands off pref

The old rule said you could never access a sandbed without a recycle and we like to show how, when needed. Not that it's a better way. It's a fine reset point for challenge tanks we repeatedly show.

 

[Live Water]

This might be a bad idea but I'll throw it out there anyway, I don't have much experience with death in a dsb but has anyone ever thought about slowly and carefully injecting new bacteria using a syringe or turkey baster? Or if your worried about trapped gasses pull the fish and vacuum it? I've vacuumed dsb's with every color of growth visible from the outside of the glass and added bacteria afterwards with no negative effects. That being said im not sure how long it had been since they had been previously disturbed. The tank was just moved a couple of months ago, so the dsb was just disturbed anyway, just some ideas.

 

[Wiz]

Im not sure they sell anaerobic bacteria. It would be sweet if they did. That would work. But the way a dsb works is to have the microfauna which create tunnels in the lower levels of sand which allows the gas produced by the bacteria to escape without bringin oxygen to the anaerobic area. When you disturb the sand you crush and kill the tiny creatures. With compact sand and no tunnels the decay is trapped until the fauna from the healthy area eats its way in relieving the entrapment. Vacuuming would remove or crush most or all of the chain that allows a dsb to work. Defeating the purpose of having it.

This might be a bad idea but I'll throw it out there anyway, I don't have much experience with death in a dsb but has anyone ever thought about slowly and carefully injecting new bacteria using a syringe or turkey baster? Or if your worried about trapped gasses pull the fish and vacuum it? I've vacuumed dsb's with every color of growth visible from the outside of the glass and added bacteria afterwards with no negative effects. That being said im not sure how long it had been since they had been previously disturbed. The tank was just moved a couple of months ago, so the dsb was just disturbed anyway, just some ideas.

 

[john.m.cole3]

If they work, makes one wonder why carbon dosing, ATS, biopellets, azno3, gfo, refugiums were ever needed? It's also amazing to ponder we have never cured an algae issue by transporting an old dsb into a tank, but we fixed them by transporting old dsb's out.

Nailed it!