Help!!! is this ich again?

[Pete Horwath]

four months ago my mimic tang got ich and died i immediately got all the fish out into two OT's and started treatment starting with: 2 weeks tank transfer which killed of the ich. Two weeks later we get marine velvet in the QT tank (100% sure this was marine velvet... looked like drunk gold miners had fought over a bag of gold dust over my fish) treat this with Cupramine and get everything under control.
during this time DT is fallow (nothing but inverts) I'm running UV and Ozone, water parameters are stable...after 66 Days I reintroduce the fish.

3 weeks later...

My Hippo Tang presented with one mid-sized white spot on upper middle right side of back. Within a couple of days this went to about 15 spots and held Day one of first white spot I start dozing Kick Ich in my DT i figure probably not ich but if it is maybe this will work as its not to heavily spread and i'm also running ozone (note i turned Carbon UV and skimmer off per instructions) 9 days later NONE of the spots have dropped off and in fact a few have grown in size. My thoughts at this point. No way its ich must be Lymphocystis if thats the case i better stop the kick ich, turn on Carbon and skimmer as pristine water conditions is about the only treatment. NOTE: all fish are eating good and no other fish has shown ANY sign or spots.

24 hours later...
one dead blue chromis being eaten by my sunflower coral? not sure if this was related or just the results of a battle with my other two larger blue chromis as they have been at odds.

Foxface (yes same fish which had ich AND marine velvet so bad that he should have died) comes down with a about a dozen small white spots which look like classic ich but are starting on his back NOT near gills)

Sailfin Tang and Coral beauty have one spot (in the exactly same place on middle of the back where the Hippo Tangs started)

so any ideas what I got and how to treat it this time? I don't think moving the fish back out of DT would be a good idea as the stress would probably kill them after all they have been through PLUS no way to catch them without breaking all the rocks apart (anyone who can catch tangs in a reef tank has super human powers)

Here are my parameters(from week ago will test again today) and fish
6 Month old
110g mixed reef with 20g sump
running refugium, skimmer biopellets Ozone and carbon
120lbs of LR

SW 1.024
PH 7.92
Alk 8.3
ORB 317
Nitrate 16 high but down from peak of 25 a month ago
Phos 0.20
ammonium 0

Fish
sm Hippo
sm Coral Beauty
sm Sailfin
2 mocha clowns
5 YT damsels
lawnmower blenny
2 lg blue chromis
file fish

Here are some pics of the fish quality is terrible as my fish will not stand still to be photographed when they're sick ( if they were healthy they'd be poising like teen age girls taking selfies)

 

[Big G]

Wow! Sorry for your losses. There have been reports of Ich lasting up to 72 days in a fallow tank. That's why we recommend 76 days of fallow in the DT. Have all of the fish been through prophylactic treatment with copper?

 

[BestMomEver]

The hippo tang almost looks like he’s scraped himself up. I had one once that used to jam himself in the tiniest of place and nearly rubbed his scales off! The Rabbitfish.... I don’t know....

I feel your pain. I lost nearly an entire tank to velvet. Good luck to you!

 

[HotRocks]

This is a bit of a puzzling situation.

When the fish were treated with copper in QT what level did you treat at and how did you test?

Is it possible a fish you thought you had lost at some point could still be alive somewhere in the DT/Sump and carried the parasites during fallow?

Did you add anything new that was "wet" to the tank during the fallow period?

Hippos are a tough fish to use as a gauge due to the nature of wedging themselves in the rock etc. The foxface almost looks like it has velvet.

 

[Maggie321]

Add to @HotRocks questions... How far away from each other we're the DT and the QT?

 

[Pete Horwath]

so here are me updated numbers
Date Time Salinity PH Alkalinity ORB Phosphate Nitrate Magnesium Calcium Ammo
10/29/2018 20:00 1.024 7.92 9.10 395 0.20 16.00 1470 518
11/9/2018 17:00 1.024 7.85 8.30 317
11/17/2018 9:30 1.023 7.72 8.40 276 0.29 16.00 1320 534 0
First reason I stopped thinking it was ich was because of the numbers of spots was so low and UNTIL today it didn't look to have spread of course that could have been the Kick Ich (yea i don't beleive that Kick Ich is a full cure but i do think it may help keep the numbers down enough where my UV and ozone could keep them in check.)
Second reason i thought it wasn't ich was because after 11 days the white spots were still there. I've never seen the white spots not drop off after a few days. anyone ever see ich stay longer? really need to figure out what it is? if its Lympho I need to turn the carbon and UV and skimmer back on but if its ich, the Kick ich seems to be keeping from going crazy

 

[Pete Horwath]

This is a bit of a puzzling situation.

When the fish were treated with copper in QT what level did you treat at and how did you test?

Is it possible a fish you thought you had lost at some point could still be alive somewhere in the DT/Sump and carried the parasites during fallow?

Did you add anything new that was "wet" to the tank during the fallow period?

Hippos are a tough fish to use as a gauge due to the nature of wedging themselves in the rock etc. The foxface almost looks like it has velvet.

There was no fish left in tank i took it down to the sand and everyone was accounted for. I used the recommended level for the cupramine (.5) and tested daily the whole time with the seachem and salifert test kits

 

[Pete Horwath]

There was no fish left in tank i took it down to the sand and everyone was accounted for. I used the recommended level for the cupramine (.5) and tested daily the whole time with the seachem and salifert test kits

Positive its not velvet (been there done that the horror is burned into my mind!!!)

 

[Maggie321]

I believe if your tank was only fallow for 66 days, you likely have ick again. I would recommend pull the fish and place on QT far away from your DT. Treat with copper and make sure your DT stays fallow for 76 days.

 

[Pete Horwath]

I put in 2 feather dusters about 20 days into the fallow period so could have come in there although this was from my favorite LFS which has stringent quarantine procedures (yeah I know that's not enough but I know these guys pretty well and they are pretty fanatical about it) I'm open to the possibility it's ich and it came in somewhere. I also only went 66 days not the full 77 but I've just never heard of ich hanging on the fish and growing for 11 days?

 

[Pete Horwath]

Add to @HotRocks questions... How far away from each other we're the DT and the QT?

they were in a different room about 50 feet

 

[HotRocks]

Positive its not velvet (been there done that the horror is burned into my mind!!!)

That's good. Maybe I saw specs on glass.

I don't think you can guage ich solely from the hippo. I'd give it a week or two not dosing anything and see what happens.

 

[Maggie321]

I put in 2 feather dusters about 20 days into the fallow period so could have come in there although this was from my favorite LFS which has stringent quarantine procedures (yeah I know that's not enough but I know these guys pretty well and they are pretty fanatical about it) I'm open to the possibility it's ich and it came in somewhere. I also only went 66 days not the full 77 but I've just never heard of ich hanging on the fish and growing for 11 days?

They cycle through, New spots show up daily as old spots fall off. Introducing something with the dusters is a possibility, but I'd be more inclined to say you never got rid of it during the 66 day fallow period.

 

[Maggie321]

That's good. Maybe I saw specs on glass.

I don't think you can guage ich solely from the hippo. I'd give it a week or two not dosing anything and see what happens.

I agree on not jumping to conclusions, but I would make sure your QT is ready in the mean time.

 

[HotRocks]

I agree on not jumping to conclusions, but I would make sure your QT is ready in the mean time.

I may be misunderstanding here. If you are seeing white spots appear daily on fish other than the hippo then you may want to consider moving them to QT and treat.

I understand the trusted LFS. Anything is possible.

 

[Pete Horwath]

Wow! Sorry for your losses. There have been reports of Ich lasting up to 72 days in a fallow tank. That's why we recommend 76 days of fallow in the DT. Have all of the fish been through prophylactic treatment with copper?

all had 1 round of copper. got to say I'm very scared of copper as i had a Mimic tang which died in a half dose of Cupramine. The tang practically lived in freshwater baths when i had him in QT as he had flukes (his own tank until they were gone) have you ever heard of ich spots lasting 11 days? anyone with any experience with Lympho enough to rule that out?

 

[Pete Horwath]

I may be misunderstanding here. If you are seeing white spots appear daily on fish other than the hippo then you may want to consider moving them to QT and treat.

I understand the trusted LFS. Anything is possible.

2 Tanks on stand by!!!

 

[Pete Horwath]

They cycle through, New spots show up daily as old spots fall off. Introducing something with the dusters is a possibility, but I'd be more inclined to say you never got rid of it during the 66 day fallow period.

pretty sure these are the same spots though which is why i'm confused. my pics are pretty bad but they do seem to show the spots line up . almost hope its ich as I know how to treat that even if its a pain. Thanks for the help all of you!!!

 

[Big G]

I put in 2 feather dusters about 20 days into the fallow period so could have come in there although this was from my favorite LFS which has stringent quarantine procedures (yeah I know that's not enough but I know these guys pretty well and they are pretty fanatical about it) I'm open to the possibility it's ich and it came in somewhere. I also only went 66 days not the full 77 but I've just never heard of ich hanging on the fish and growing for 11 days?

The feather dusters needed to be in a fallow QT for 76 days. Sorry, but the only QT you can truly trust is your own. Think of it this way. The LFS has perhaps hundreds of fish, corals, inverts, etc. in QT of some sort. The chances of error are tremendous.

 

[Pete Horwath]

Agreed! I should know better lol .... I’m not sure it’s ich though cause it doesn’t drop off the fish. anyone have any experience with lympho?