Help, its going out of controll.

  • Thread starter Thread starter saha99
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I kept freshwater before, never had a problem with tapwater in freshwater. What is ur advice ur telling me to quit ?
Your local LFS might sell RO water. Usually really cheap in my area. You could take a few five gallon buckets and load up if they offer it.
 
Your local LFS might sell RO water. Usually really cheap in my area. You could take a few five gallon buckets and load up if they offer it.
I bought a RODI It should arrive by the 13nth.
 
Lots of advice and potential problems here. First: triage order of priorities:

Ammonia: I noticed you do not have a very sizable amount of rock in the tank. You might want to add some additional dry rock (be careful about adding live rock at this point) to give greater surface area.

RO/DI water: You will save yourself many headaches if you can find yourself a basic RO/DI (4 stage) filter and put it in parallel to your laundry tap (or just periodically remove the hose from the laundry machine and attach the filter to that outlet). Remember you have to have an outlet for the "dirty" runoff water, either into the washing machine itself or into your effluent drain. (The "dirty" water isn't really dirty for use in washing clothes, it is just concentrated tap water).

Nitrite (NO2): At those levels, do not worry at all! In a freshwater tank I would say otherwise, but those low levels of nitrite will not be a problem for marine creatures. Eventually you will see the nitrite come down as the bacterial colonies get a foot hold, but there is no reason to try to manage that level. (Old school guidance would have told you otherwise, but studies a good decade or so back show that there are minimal to no effects at low concentrations, only when they get on the order of 100ppm or so). Read here to verify: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/rhf/index.php

Right now I would be less worried about nitrate and phosphate then getting your biological filtration stabilized. If you never added bottled bacteria it may not be a bad idea to add a bottle of Fritzyme TurboStart 900. There are others (Tims, etc), but that is the most recent one I had success with. But regards nutrient control in the short term since you have a small tank (15 US gallons, I myself have a 14 gallon cube), you could do well once you have a good water source (DI filter) to do weekly very sizable water changes for a bit. I do 80% changes weekly, enough such that there is only an inch or two in the tank to allow the clownfish to stay upright! Now only do this if you have the confidence to match the salinity and temperature very closely to that of the tank's. I use a metric scale to measure my salt to the exact gram (then verify with the refractometer once mixed) and I use an identical heater to what is in the tank set to the same temperature. It will never be EXACTLY the same, but it should be pretty close. You may want to start with smaller changes until you are confident with your process, say 25% to start, then 50, then whatever you are comfortable with and which don't show stress on the inhabitants. One of the local fish dealers here has a 7.5 gallon nano for which he takes the level all the way down until the hose looses suction, and the tank looks great! (Mind you he is using repurposed water from the shop's other coral tank systems to refill). Also, if you start doing such large changes, do yourself a favor and never rush the mixing.....allow the new water to sit overnight each and every time.

One thing that large level a water change allows you to do is to rely less on testing and manual tweaking (two part dosing, etc) to maintain suitable Alk/Ca/Mg levels. Once again, these (Alk/Ca/Mg) should be secondary to the ammonia, but given the choice of doing a one hour water change per week versus spending that time testing, calculating dosing levels, etc, I would choose the changes. If your tank was 600 liters, that would be a different story of course. A few other tricks: feed less! Let me say it again: feed MUCH less (for now)! Your fish will survive on two to three very small feedings a week, and for now that would be a good idea until the tank matures. On the day you are going to do a water change, that is the day to feed your corals and give your fish a slightly (slightly) larger feeding, then do the water change within a few hours afterwards to capture all the leftovers. Also, before you siphon out the tank's water, really stir things up either with a turkey baster or simply using a powerhead and blasting the rock (and stirring up the sand to release detritus into the water column). You can cover the inlet of the powerhead slightly with your palm to control the outflow blast/rate.

One other thing, you should elevate the skimmer up a bit higher in the tank to skim a bit "drier", as right now it looks excessively wet. It takes tiny adjustments and then waiting a day to see how it responds (you can never judge right away). No problem if you take it too high and have a thick sludge at the end of the day, but a coffee or lighter tea colored skimming is what you should aim for.

Hope this helps a bit.

Should i elevate it more??
image.jpg
 
That looks ok. Just keep an eye on the tank. You should be pulling yucky greenish black scum out of the tank by now.
 
You have to be so patient in calibrating the in tank skimmers, as it can take awhile for them to "settle down" so that they aren't pulling so much "clean" water. As the good doctor indicated, you want to be getting a darker skimmate, I would make a tiny adjustment upwards every other day and watch over time (not just in the few hours after lifting it) how it responds. So many things can temporarily "upset" the surfactant foam......feeding, dosing, activated carbon, your hands in the tank, (kids putting bubble bath in the tank), the overall tank water level, really anything that impacts the surface tension for a bit. In a way it is cool (in a science/geeky sort of way) to observe, but it can make it difficult to dial it in. Having dealt with far less capable (read: old LOL) airstone skimmers, all I can say is use tiny tiny adjustments and give lots of time to see how it adjusts at each step. And then right when you think everything is locked in, it will move. :) But after a couple months of working with it you will get a feel for how thick you can pull the skimmate and you won't imagine having a tank without one after seeing the muck it can pull out. Also, since the tank is still relatively young, there may not be a lot of organics in it yet, though as the doctor mentioned, you should start seeing some.
 
There was a BRSTV video (live event actually) on Black Friday I believe in which (besides two hours of other things) the two guys discussed the different roles that a foam sponge, poly fiber, and a skimmer play in terms of mechanical removal. (Several people are going to jump on me and say that a skimmer is called a protein skimmer because it is a chemical process and removes proteins, which is only partially true. The polarized bonds formed at the surface interfaces attract a different "micro" level of particles and thus still result in physical removal. Not a chemical reaction, which is why I say skimmers are still a mechanical means of removing muck before it breaks down. Just very very tiny muck LOL).

Actually after just looking, there was one Black Friday series just on skimmers (16 years of history!) that I did not get to watch last November: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/brstv-black-friday-2020-live-streams.778166/

There is some great information in those videos particularly.
 
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Update 2: my skimmer dod a better job today, the waste water was yellowish and when j scooped the inside with a tissue it was thick brown. my nitrifying bacteria, and artificial live rock has arrived today, you guys think i should add them today or after i make a complete water change.
PS
The bacteria from tropic marine looks like heroin:
image.jpg
 
There was a BRSTV video (live event actually) on Black Friday I believe in which (besides two hours of other things) the two guys discussed the different roles that a foam sponge, poly fiber, and a skimmer play in terms of mechanical removal. (Several people are going to jump on me and say that a skimmer is called a protein skimmer because it is a chemical process and removes proteins, which is only partially true. The polarized bonds formed at the surface interfaces attract a different "micro" level of particles and thus still result in physical removal. Not a chemical reaction, which is why I say skimmers are still a mechanical means of removing muck before it breaks down. Just very very tiny muck LOL).

Actually after just looking, there was one Black Friday series just on skimmers (16 years of history!) that I did not get to watch last November: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/brstv-black-friday-2020-live-streams.778166/

There is some great information in those videos particularly.
Ill check it out like i said in the update your advices made a difference thanks!!!
 
Update 3:
The diotoms won, the tank became so polluted that i simply couldnt keep the fish and corals in it anymore. I went to the LFS and gifted him the fish and corals. JK ;p i went to the LFS where they gave me a live rock from their sump full of nitryfying bacteria, and took my 25L tank and shped it into a temporary home for the clowns:
BDE5BA74-5AB7-47DE-BD16-450FB746168A.jpeg


I wont give up so easily, i went ahead and drained all my water from my tank, cleaned the cannister, bought a good skimmer, and increased the live rock quantity from 2Kg to 7Kg. I also bought live sand from caribsea. My tank looks like this:

image.jpg


MY RODI unit has also arrived so i should be able to begin filling the tank to begin the cycle. I tryied not to rinse my canister too much to avoid killing all of my bacteria.

In my nee tank, i just had a aptasia outbreak, must be due to the LFS, any recomendations on how to battle that?
 
Not in the picture, i did not add the live sand yet
 
I don't want to throw a monkey wrench into this troubleshooting


wait, yes I do he he

you never had any ammonia, nitrite, or cycling problems whatsoever and the purchases just made have no impact on fixing the issue, you needed simple tank cleaning and when your water gets pure, you clean less, but the overall fix has nothing to do with cycling whatsoever, or lack of surface area, you had common simple test kit misreads.

the new live rock is nice, anyone's system is benefitted by that. the bottle bac was useless purchase. I could link a thread showing what we mean by you never had any ammonia or nitrite issues, but that's only if interested in the proof.

You simply needed a specialized way to guide out the growths by cleaning, no extra purchases were required here. the diatoms will come back anyway, if we don't address how to deep clean a problem nano. free of charge.

The recommend here to buy bottle bac in relation to a test misread is something we study in other threads, its peer driven sales with no basis in actual microbiology at all. we respond to literally anything an api kit says, depending on context. we buy, that's how we're trained with today's cycling posts and articles avail to study.
 
My skimmer was uselless tho and the water literally turned brownish, it began looking like a swamp.
 
that's your key to clean vs let it sit there until a better skimmer came in.

we run totally skimmerless nanos that size that stay perfectly clear.

the issue here is your ideal fix is manually cleaning the tank all at once, making it totally clear and free of invasion, and then deal with growback in steps but always cause the clean condition, never wait or buy things for it.

the reason its important to know cycling had zero issues here is because the test is still coming back, its only temporarily gone, you'll need a working way to fix it.
 
And you are wrong , the nitrites surpassed 10 when i removed everything
 
I dont want to change the water every week, im a college student so i dont have the time for it
 
that's truly everyone's goal, to be able to reef hands free.

Your main challenge will be eventually adding in a bunch of life and then it smothers due to overtake, in case the hands off mode didn't work. loss of $ as accumulated items are lost if purchased dosers don't help... (fish disease is an upcoming challenge, after diatoms for example, see posts in the fish disease forum here at rtr to know how new reefs behave regarding fish disease, it can be predicted vs reacted to)

by cleaning now, before its packed, you get critical practice and a reef that looks sharp, new, without delay, saving animals stress.


not a popular option though am aware, the public demands hands off reefing no matter the cost. if you ever want to interrupt a loss cycle, consider the offers given. only in the future, not currently, just when its needed after this first round of practice using alternate options. Notice how the fish have behaved normally the whole time. eating, swimming normally, that means something when troubleshooting cycle issues.

you now have enough clues to completely change your track in reefing if ever prompted by the tank,
b
 
Just backing up a step, but I don't see where the ammonia test kit was specified as being API? But I do see where the measured level was responding to additives (in a good manner, though temporarily)?
 
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