Help! Juvenile French Angel Disease

[Chris Palm]

Thought so. Thanks!

 

[Chris Palm]

@Humblefish, how are you doing? I hope you had a good weekend. I have another sick fish, and I thought: why start another thread if your the member that will most probably have the answer to my question. I hope that's ok with you.

So friday I bought a Clarkii Clownfish that my lfs received from the states the same day. Now you have to imagine, the lfs here is not specialized in saltwater fish, so they basically just get oceanwater the day before the fish arrive and put all their fish in a 29 gallon biocube. And I mean all there fish, tangs, clarkiis, tomatos, maroons, ocellaris and lots of them. So needless to say when I bought the Clarkii he was under stress but in decent shape.

However he was in the same tank with these fish (amongst others)

I didn't help his cause much because I made a few rookie mistakes; I bought him with a tomato clown and they put them in the same bag. Then I decided to add those two to my 90 gallon, that already had a maroon. Needless to say there was immediate stress in the tank, so I proceeded to remove the Clarkii as he was the most passive and I had another tank in mind for him anyway (Maroon and Tomato have divided the tank in their separate territories now).

Unfortunately my QT has the wrasse still in it (the french angel didn't make it) so I didn't want to put him in with diseased fish. So I decided to put him in the holding tank I first had my powder blue tang and maroon while setting up the 90 gallon. I recently did a 50% water change on this tank as amonia and nitrates were high due to overfeeding (I think). Hair algae has basically taken over the entire tank. Cleaned it out a bit and did a 50% water change and the day after the parameters seemed ok.

Just now I noticed my Clarkii has pop-eye, I think. See pictures.

When I put him in the 90 gallon at first, I think I saw ick, and that's also why I removed him. He couldve gotten it from those small hippo tangs as they were full of white spots at the lfs. Now there is no sign of ick but this pop-eye. Could it be the stress or is it just the water quality of the holding tank? Amonia, nitrites are at 0, however, nitrates are still rather high at 40. It was almost off the charts before the 50% wc.

I hope you can give me some advice to help the poor guy. He is basically my favorite fish after the powder blue and I was actually looking to setup a 29 gallon biocube in my livingroom for him within the next month.

 

[Humblefish]

The popeye could be damage from fighting with one of the other clownfish, or possibly a bacterial infection starting up. You could try treating with Epsom salt (reef safe) at a dosage of 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons to help relieve the swelling. If this doesn't help, then he will likely need antibiotic treatment (erythromycin or kanamycin) to save the eye. The really bad news is eye infections can spread to the other eye if left untreated.

More bad news... if he was housed with hippo tangs that had obvious symptoms of ich or velvet, then odds are the clownfish now has it too as both diseases are water borne and transmissible. Clownfish are tough, but having to fight off a parasitic infestation plus a bacterial infection may be too much to ask of the fish's natural immune system. Personally, I would assume the worst and QT and treat with copper plus antibiotics. Or do tank transfer method if you don't have access to meds: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tank-transfer-method.192655/

BTW; housing both a maroon & tomato clown in just a 90 gal is not sustainable long term. Those are two of the most aggressive clowns there is and one will eventually kill the other.

 

[Chris Palm]

Thanks for the quick reply. Unfortunately, as you know, I do not have medication readily available here so I am going to opt for the TTM. Great explanation btw, in your thread. How would you have to go about setting up each tank with new water. I read that you should probably use the water from your DT if its disease free. I am going to assume that for now. This means that newly mixed water is only going into my DT right? And if I do TTM, do I still have to treat with antibiotics?

With regard to the other clowns; I will try to relocate the tomato to another home. Basically tomatos should be house in pairs of two for each tank I assume?

 

[Humblefish]

Thanks for the quick reply. Unfortunately, as you know, I do not have medication readily available here so I am going to opt for the TTM. Great explanation btw, in your thread. How would you have to go about setting up each tank with new water. I read that you should probably use the water from your DT if its disease free. I am going to assume that for now. This means that newly mixed water is only going into my DT right? And if I do TTM, do I still have to treat with antibiotics?

You can use DT water for TTM, so long as you are sure your DT is disease-free. It would be best to use antibiotics in conjunction with TTM; although once the fish is free of ich the immune system may be able to fight off the infection naturally. But that's risky, being you are dealing with an eye infection here that can cause potential blindness. I would at least dose Epsom salt while doing TTM to address the swelling.

With regard to the other clowns; I will try to relocate the tomato to another home. Basically tomatos should be house in pairs of two for each tank I assume?

Yes; maroons should only be kept in pairs as well. Although sometimes these clowns are known to even kill their own mate.

 

[Chris Palm]

Ok thanks! I think I will be able to find Epsom salt on the island. With regard to the antibiotics, would this also be through a prescription provided by a friend? Heheh

 

[melypr1985]

Ok thanks! I think I will be able to find Epsom salt on the island. With regard to the antibiotics, would this also be through a prescription provided by a friend? Heheh

You should be able to find these meds on amazon at least. Not sure if your LFS will sell them since they deal primarily with fresh water, but those antibiotics are readily available in the LFS's here in the states.

 

[Humblefish]

You should be able to find these meds on amazon at least. Not sure if your LFS will sell them since they deal primarily with fresh water, but those antibiotics are readily available in the LFS's here in the states.

+1 Tell your friend from the states to bring over some API EM Erythromycin, Seachem Kanaplex or even Furan-2. All available on Amazon or the popular online pet sites (like Foster Smith).

 

[Chris Palm]

Ok thanks guys! I can order it on amazon and there are some shipping companies that will forward it over here. But it will take probably a week to get here. So as you indicated @Humblefish , the maroon and tomato were not sustainable in the tank. Within the weekend the tomato did this to me maroon.

For a temporary solution, I caught the tomato and put him in this within the 90 gallon.

Two questions, how long can I hold him in there till he totally freaks out? And which one would you remove from the 90 gallon? I am currently leaning towards re-locating the maroon as I like the tomato clown better, plus I will be able to buy a pair for the tomato tomorrow at my lfs (if they're still alive). However, I also have a powder blue in the 90 gallon, which I know functions better in a docile tank and I've noticed the tang trying to keep the tomato in check, which probably also stresses the tang out. In short, will the tomato settle down if I remove the maroon and eventually add e pair for her?

Thanks a million for your advice!

 

[melypr1985]

I've heard powder blue's can be nasty mean fish. I dont think you need to worry about the tomato stressing out the PBT, more the other way around. Personally I would keep the maroon, cause they are prettier when full grown --- totally my opinion. I say keep your favorite cause it's your tank and you gotta look at em every day.

 

[Chris Palm]

Hi melypr1985, yes I've also noticed that the PBT is very dominant. He likes to rule the tank keeping everything in order. I like that but I haven't seen it get nasty with the other fish, just keeping them in check. I kinda like the Tomato better because of the way it swims as opposed to the occelaris and maroon. However, I bought the Maroon wanting it to reach full size in the 90 gallon. My problem is I got too excited and bought too many clowns. The 90 gallon is in my guest-room, so I still have the living room and the office to locate my maroon and clarkii . What kind of tank do you have?

 

[melypr1985]

Hi melypr1985, yes I've also noticed that the PBT is very dominant. He likes to rule the tank keeping everything in order. I like that but I haven't seen it get nasty with the other fish, just keeping them in check. I kinda like the Tomato better because of the way it swims as opposed to the occelaris and maroon. However, I bought the Maroon wanting it to reach full size in the 90 gallon. My problem is I got too excited and bought too many clowns. The 90 gallon is in my guest-room, so I still have the living room and the office to locate my maroon and clarkii . What kind of tank do you have?

I have a 75 gallon mixed reef. Currently all my fish are in QT waiting 9 more days to go back home.

 

[Humblefish]

IMO; A PBT needs to be kept with sturdy fish which are capable of defending themselves. Both the maroon and tomato fit the bill. A PBT will usually charge at sissy fish and make their life miserable; unless said sissy fish has a hidey hole in which it can retreat to.

 

[Chris Palm]

Hey guys, trully appreciate all your help. Anitbiotics is on its way but has not arrived yet. Tried the Epson salt but it did not help, the eye just got bigger. Do you think its too late?

 

[Chris Palm]

 

[Humblefish]

He could very well lose the eye if it's left like that for too long. I would try another round of Epsom salt while you're waiting for the antibiotics. Nothing to lose at this point.

 

[Chris Palm]

With losing the eye; do you mean eyesight or will the eye fall off?

I have dosed Epson salt, 1 tbslp per 5 gallon everyday, should I up the dose?

 

[Humblefish]

With losing the eye; do you mean eyesight or will the eye fall off?

Usually the eyeball completely disintegrates; however I've had fish live a long happy life (10-15 years) with just one eye. The danger is if this is actually an infection which spreads to the other eye. Two blind eyes is pretty much a death sentence, as the fish can no longer see to eat.

I have dosed Epson salt, 1 tbslp per 5 gallon everyday, should I up the dose?

Do another dose @ 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons.

 

[Chris Palm]

Ok thanks! Definitely don't want that.

 

[Chris Palm]

@Humblefish, I hope all is well with. I have some bad news. Unfortunately my Clarkii died just as the antibiotics finally arrived. It started about 3 days ago, when he stopped eating. His eye actually started to get to a normal size again and I hoped he was going to get eating after a day or two. Unfortunately yesterday he died. See the pictures of his body. Do you think my other fish are at risk? Before he died, he just kept low to the ground and didnt do much. He would swim around the tank if I would stick in a net ora my hand, but when he was not bothered he would only stay in one position.