Help me! Finnex 500w Water Heater Eletrocution/current Problems

[Philt56]

Additionally the shock happens whether or not I have the power strip turned on our not

What power strip? If Finnex controller on a power strip? The gfi is in the wall breaker box with all the other house breakers?

 

[Brew12]

It lasts. I can only feel it in my finger cuticles and around my nails (nail biter) and when i plunge my hand into the tank I don’t really feel it.

So what’s the general idea here? Something is causing stray voltage in my tank and the titanium element is doing what to it? Grounding it?

I'm not sure what is going on. If your titanium heater has a 3 prong plug, it should be a ground that will drain any induced voltages. You should only feel a tingle if the heater wasn't in the sump.
The fact that the GFCI doesn't trip implies it is an induced voltage. The contradictory information has me baffled.

Can you take a voltage reading between your neutral and ground plugs?

 

[ccoffel81]

Those light up testers are very sensitive. Only use volt meter. The light up ones pick up electric radiation, volt meters well read volts. The very low voltage readings Make me suspect that when you stick the probe in the water it is making electricity, your saltwater tank is basically one big battery introduce two different metals and you will create electricity be a small amount. Can find videos On YouTube doing science experiments with the lightbulb is powered by saltwater.

 

[BenitaSolo]

I'm not sure what is going on. If your titanium heater has a 3 prong plug, it should be a ground that will drain any induced voltages. You should only feel a tingle if the heater wasn't in the sump.
The fact that the GFCI doesn't trip implies it is an induced voltage. The contradictory information has me baffled.

Can you take a voltage reading between your neutral and ground plugs?

How do I do that? Stick the red in the ground port and the black in the neutral? Of what?

I almost feel like this conversation needs to start over.

Hey- when I put my hand in my tank I get shocked. The only time I don’t get shocked is when my heater is unplugged. Is my heater leaving voltage? (Is that even something that can happen?) It’s a brand new new titanium element.

 

[Brew12]

How do I do that? Stick the red in the ground port and the black in the neutral? Of what?

I almost feel like this conversation needs to start over.

Hey- when I put my hand in my tank I get shocked. The only time I don’t get shocked is when my heater is unplugged. Is my heater leaving voltage? (Is that even something that can happen?) It’s a brand new new titanium element.

lol Yes, put one in the ground and the other in the neutral. With AC voltage is doesn't matter which color goes where.

I guess I should verify.. does your heater plug have 3 prongs or two?

 

[BenitaSolo]

lol Yes, put one in the ground and the other in the neutral. With AC voltage is doesn't matter which color goes where.

I guess I should verify.. does your heater plug have 3 prongs or two?

Yes the heater has 3 prongs.
When I put one into the ground and one into the neutral I get a reading of .47 V

 

[Brew12]

Yes the heater has 3 prongs.
When I put one into the ground and one into the neutral I get a reading of .47 V

I'm not sure what to tell you at this point. Every check seems to be good. You may just be extremely sensitive to small amounts of current flow. The one thing that I can't wrap my brain around is why anything changes when you put the heater in. If anything, putting the heater in, even if it was failed, should make getting a tingle impossible.
The only thing I can recommend at this point is replacing your GFCI and seeing if a new one trips. I would say installing a ground probe would be a good idea, but your heater should act like a ground probe anyway.
If your GFCI isn't tripping, and everything is plugged into it, you shouldn't be in a dangerous situation.

 

[gcrawford]

New element, control with Apex. Ground probe, GFCI. Done.

 

[BenitaSolo]

I'm not sure what to tell you at this point. Every check seems to be good. You may just be extremely sensitive to small amounts of current flow. The one thing that I can't wrap my brain around is why anything changes when you put the heater in. If anything, putting the heater in, even if it was failed, should make getting a tingle impossible.
The only thing I can recommend at this point is replacing your GFCI and seeing if a new one trips. I would say installing a ground probe would be a good idea, but your heater should act like a ground probe anyway.
If your GFCI isn't tripping, and everything is plugged into it, you shouldn't be in a dangerous situation.

Thanks again for all the help! Trouble shooting is always difficult online...I’m going to keep toying with scenarios. I’ll keep you up to date.

 

[BenitaSolo]

New element, control with Apex. Ground probe, GFCI. Done.

Element is brand new. I replaced them old one because I thought it was the issue. It’s on a GFCI breaker, ground probe is on the list even though I think the heater should/could act as one. So that leaves the apex. I have been trying hard to convince myself to get one. What would an apex do to help me in this scenario? Sell me!!

 

[BenitaSolo]

Those light up testers are very sensitive. Only use volt meter. The light up ones pick up electric radiation, volt meters well read volts. The very low voltage readings Make me suspect that when you stick the probe in the water it is making electricity, your saltwater tank is basically one big battery introduce two different metals and you will create electricity be a small amount. Can find videos On YouTube doing science experiments with the lightbulb is powered by saltwater.

Enough that I feel a current when I put my fingers in the tank? I’ll stick to plumbing... **** rolls down hill and don’t bite your fingernails, that’s the easy trade

 

[ccoffel81]

Enough that I feel a current when I put my fingers in the tank? I’ll stick to plumbing... **** rolls down hill and don’t bite your fingernails, that’s the easy trade

Put a 9 volt battery on your tongue you’ll feel that too! Water Can exacerbate the situation. Low volts like that I would not even worry about. Get a titanium grounding plug and a glass quartz heater and don’t fully submerged and you will be good. I always leave the top of my heater is out because none of them should be submerged I don’t care what the manufacturer says.

 

[ccoffel81]

Enough that I feel a current when I put my fingers in the tank? I’ll stick to plumbing... **** rolls down hill and don’t bite your fingernails, that’s the easy trade

Every electrical Device can produce stray voltage in your tank. That’s why it is important to ground the tank.

 

[Shawn Heckman]

Toss the heater in the garbage. I have had 3 of them they are garbage. The controller works fine. I plugged a Jager into it no more shocks.

 

[BenitaSolo]

Every electrical Device can produce stray voltage in your tank. That’s why it is important to ground the tank.

It doesn't bother me that much- I am worried more about the health of the tank. When does all this stray voltage become an issue?

 

[WVNed]

You have asked a question that has never been definitively answered. The answer our society operates on is "when it becomes a problem".

 

[ccoffel81]

It doesn't bother me that much- I am worried more about the health of the tank. When does all this stray voltage become an issue?

As soon as you place any electrical device inside your tank

 

[Brew12]

When does all this stray voltage become an issue?

You have asked a question that has never been definitively answered. The answer our society operates on is "when it becomes a problem".

This +1

Current is really never an issue with marine fish. There is anecdotal evidence that AC voltage in a tank can cause odd fish behavior and may contribute to HLLE. What voltage level does this occur at? No idea.

 

[ccoffel81]

This +1

Current is really never an issue with marine fish. There is anecdotal evidence that AC voltage in a tank can cause odd fish behavior and may contribute to HLLE. What voltage level does this occur at? No idea.

I tend to disagree sessile invertebrates are very sensitive to any voltage ime. Tangs get hole in head syndrome. Delt with it a lot.

 

[WVNed]

You are asking the same question that farmers asked about transmission power lines being routed over their herds or if cell phones cause cancer. After many studies over many years I am not aware of any definitive answer.

In simplest terms voltage is transmitted in 2 ways. On a conductor like a wire or with a magnetic field. Flowing electricity always produces a magnetic field.

When something in the environment reacts to the magnetic field voltage is produced. It is acting as an antennae. How dangerous it is depends on the strength of the signal and the efficiency it is received.

Every electronic device you ever purchased had this warning on it.

FCC Requirement

Changes or modifications not expressly approved by the party responsible for compliance could void the user’s authority to operate the equipment.

This device complies with Part 15 of the FCC Rules. Operation is subject to the following two conditions:

1. This device may not cause harmful interference, and
2. This device must accept any interference received, including interference that may cause undesired operation.

Note: This equipment has been tested and found to comply with the limits for a Class B digital device, pursuant to Part 15 of the FCC Rules. These limits are designed to provide reasonable protection against harmful interference in a residential installation. This equipment generates, uses, and can radiate radio frequency energy, and if not installed and used in accordance with the instructions, may cause harmful interference to radio communications. However, there is no guarantee that interference will not occur in a particular installation. If this equipment does cause harmful interference to radio or television reception, which can be determined by turning the equipment off and on, the user is encouraged to try to correct the interference by one or more of the following measures:

• Reorient or relocate the receiving antenna.
• Increase the separation between the equipment and receiver.
• Connect the equipment into an outlet on a circuit different from that to which the receiver is connected.
• Consult the dealer or an experienced radio/TV technician for help.

The 2 most common effects from induced voltages are electronic interference and heating. Want to see heating? Put a bit of metal in a microwave oven.
Neither of those is likely to be a problem in a fish tank. It can make controller probes inaccurate.

In a fish tank it is necessary to measure current to figure out what you are dealing with. If you are dealing with induced voltage instead of a bare wire in a tank the amount of current measured will be 10 to 1000 times smaller.
This like measuring the current from a small radio antenna compared to a electrical outlet. They could both produce the same voltage but the outlet can supply a lot of current and therefor power. The antennae can't. So you can touch the antennae and be OK but don't stick your finger in the electrical outlet.


Not sure any of that helped but it is what it is.