Help me help this fish

[Sizzlingreef14]

New batch of fish all in qt. Three purples, clown tang, orange shoulder, and a convict. Only one purple is displaying this issue over the course of two weeks. Fish came in with some spotting but has progressively gotten worse over the length of QT. Fish is eating well on nori clip, mysis, rods herb, and lrs.

Already running Kana, metro, and melafix at recommended dosage as this seems like a bacterial infection. Do not have nitro on hand. Copper levels 2.25 And 1.025 SG. What kept clear and strong flow. Only plastic in the tank. 100% w/c every week.

thoughts? TIA!

 

[pixelhustler]

HLLE (head and lateral line erosion) common in purple tangs. Definitely would stop the medication if he has no other ailments.

Last time I checked the cause of HLLE is unknown but some (me included) agree it can be triggered by running carbon. It’s happened to me with cheap carbon, but never with the nicer and low dust ROX 0.8.

Good nutrition is the only thing you can do. Lots of nori, whole prey/frozen food, HUFA and vitamins (Selcon, etc) and even more patience. It does get better but probably will never fully recede back to normal.

 

[LAReefer4Life]

Agreed that it does resemble possible HLLE in a couple of the photos, possibly combined with excessive stress... that's a lot of tang for one tank, how big is your QT?

 

[vetteguy53081]

New batch of fish all in qt. Three purples, clown tang, orange shoulder, and a convict. Only one purple is displaying this issue over the course of two weeks. Fish came in with some spotting but has progressively gotten worse over the length of QT. Fish is eating well on nori clip, mysis, rods herb, and lrs.

Already running Kana, metro, and melafix at recommended dosage as this seems like a bacterial infection. Do not have nitro on hand. Copper levels 2.25 And 1.025 SG. What kept clear and strong flow. Only plastic in the tank. 100% w/c every week.

thoughts? TIA!

Heavy case of head and face erosion and first t focus on is water quality. What is current ammonia, nitrate and ph levels and what kits are you using ?
Diet: These fish re herbivores but need more than just greens. Thet should be fed with foods that have fats aminos and vitamins.
Some foods are :
LRS herbivore diet
Formula 2 frozen
mysis shrimp
spirulina brine shrimp
small plankton

Add selcon vitamins to the foods occasionally. If using carbon reduce amount or pull it. Fish will heal a little but not fully

 

[Sizzlingreef14]

HLLE (head and lateral line erosion) common in purple tangs. Definitely would stop the medication if he has no other ailments.

Last time I checked the cause of HLLE is unknown but some (me included) agree it can be triggered by running carbon. It’s happened to me with cheap carbon, but never with the nicer and low dust ROX 0.8.

Good nutrition is the only thing you can do. Lots of nori, whole prey/frozen food, HUFA and vitamins (Selcon, etc) and even more patience. It does get better but probably will never fully recede back to no

HLLE (head and lateral line erosion) common in purple tangs. Definitely would stop the medication if he has no other ailments.

Last time I checked the cause of HLLE is unknown but some (me included) agree it can be triggered by running carbon. It’s happened to me with cheap carbon, but never with the nicer and low dust ROX 0.8.

Good nutrition is the only thing you can do. Lots of nori, whole prey/frozen food, HUFA and vitamins (Selcon, etc) and even more patience. It does get better but probably will never fully recede back to normal.

New fish with no carbon. Might be HLLE but body does show heavy signs as well not along the lat line

 

[Sizzlingreef14]

Agreed that it does resemble possible HLLE in a couple of the photos, possibly combined with excessive stress... that's a lot of tang for one tank, how big is your QT?

This is a 40b no stress in the tank as of now. Typical tang hierarchy establishing but nothing crazy. Again 100% weekly water changes and additional bio media in tank

 

[Sizzlingreef14]

Heavy case of head and face erosion and first t focus on is water quality. What is current ammonia, nitrate and ph levels and what kits are you using ?
Diet: These fish re herbivores but need more than just greens. Thet should be fed with foods that have fats aminos and vitamins.
Some foods are :
LRS herbivore diet
Formula 2 frozen
mysis shrimp
spirulina brine shrimp
small plankton

Add selcon vitamins to the foods occasionally. If using carbon reduce amount or pull it. Fish will heal a little but not fully

I did mention the wide diet these fish are given. Only one fish has the “issue”. Water quality is fine with weekly 100% w/c during my qt regiment. Body wounds on the lower part and tail dont really fit the HLLE typical but keeping an open mind. This would be a very rapid onset of HLLE.

 

[LAReefer4Life]

This is a 40b no stress in the tank as of now. Typical tang hierarchy establishing but nothing crazy. Again 100% weekly water changes and additional bio media in tank

40 gallon for 6 tangs, 3 of which are purples.. There are definite stressors taking place IMO.

 

[Sizzlingreef14]

40 gallon for 6 tangs, 3 of which are purples.. There are definite stressors taking place IMO.

What if I told you the purples came from the same tank and the orange shoulder and convict are only 1.5-2”. There’s the clown who is 4” but completely chill. Just the basic new environment reestablishing hierarchy. At the end of the day they all sleep in a pack.

 

[LAReefer4Life]

What if I told you the purples came from the same tank and the orange shoulder and convict are only 1.5-2”. There’s the clown who is 4” but completely chill. Just the basic new environment reestablishing hierarchy. At the end of the day they all sleep in a pack.

You do you. Good-luck

 

[threebuoys]

What is your ammonia level and which testing kit are you using?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

New batch of fish all in qt. Three purples, clown tang, orange shoulder, and a convict. Only one purple is displaying this issue over the course of two weeks. Fish came in with some spotting but has progressively gotten worse over the length of QT. Fish is eating well on nori clip, mysis, rods herb, and lrs.

Already running Kana, metro, and melafix at recommended dosage as this seems like a bacterial infection. Do not have nitro on hand. Copper levels 2.25 And 1.025 SG. What kept clear and strong flow. Only plastic in the tank. 100% w/c every week.

thoughts? TIA!

The purple tang has mild HLLE, but the discoloration on the dorsal fin and on the belly, above the anal fin is something else, I'd say bacterial. If it is that, the metro and melafix are essentially useless. The Kanamycin might help, but it is always a guess as to what gram negative antibiotic to use. How long have you been using it? If you reach 5 to 7 days with no improvement, I would consider switching to another antibiotic, perhaps Neoplex.

Jay

 

[Sizzlingreef14]

The purple tang has mild HLLE, but the discoloration on the dorsal fin and on the belly, above the anal fin is something else, I'd say bacterial. If it is that, the metro and melafix are essentially useless. The Kanamycin might help, but it is always a guess as to what gram negative antibiotic to use. How long have you been using it? If you reach 5 to 7 days with no improvement, I would consider switching to another antibiotic, perhaps Neoplex.

Jay

Can keep Metro for the HLLE but good heads up on the Kana. Will probably add some in today with the intent of the shotgun medication approach.

Been running for 1.5 weeks but each day as progression in the fish increaseso does the aggressiveness of the treatment. We are at 4 days with all the current ingredients in the tank.

Copper qt is done on Saturday and the fish can be isolated, however, I am trying to avoid the latent onset of a bacterial infection in the tank mates.

 

[MnFish1]

New fish with no carbon. Might be HLLE but body does show heavy signs as well not along the lat line

Sorry - I can't see the other replies only this one. IF you said the disease started with white spots (which I believe you said), AND the fish was normal when you got it - and this developed in QT - I do not think its ONLY HLLE - which should not come on that quickly. Since the other fish are all fine - its hard to see how/why its a water quality or food issue - UNLESS the fish was in bad condition at the start. There are signs of HLLE on the fish in at least one of the pictures.

As to the medications - I do not think Melafix has a role here - nor the Metroplex. If there is a bacterial infection (from an injury, etc) - the kanamycin makes sense. The discoloration may indeed be from a secondary bacterial infection. Could it have been Ich - which has progressed? Possible. Could it have been flukes that has progressed? It is the body lesions - that are not contiguous (i.e. in multiple places) that is worrisome to me. I would suggest continuing the kanaplex - and - again - if indeed the first symptom was 'white spots' - consider an anti parasite treatment such as copper. Prazipro could also be added - for Flukes - though I usually would say not to mix medications. EDIT 2 - I did not notice you said you had a copper level of 2.25 - which should be good for Ich, etc - if it's constant.

Lastly I had one more thought - I have a purple tang - and when stressed/or just after the lights come on - he can look somewhat lighter/blotchy (though not this blotchy) - could there be some bullying going on?

@Jay Hemdal. EDIT - sorry Jay - I didn't see your answer - or any of the others when I first saw the thread except for the OP - which seems to happen on my beta safari version.

 

[MnFish1]

What if I told you the purples came from the same tank and the orange shoulder and convict are only 1.5-2”. There’s the clown who is 4” but completely chill. Just the basic new environment reestablishing hierarchy. At the end of the day they all sleep in a pack.

now - for some reason - I see the other replies - are the purple tangs also the same size?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Can keep Metro for the HLLE but good heads up on the Kana. Will probably add some in today with the intent of the shotgun medication approach.

Been running for 1.5 weeks but each day as progression in the fish increaseso does the aggressiveness of the treatment. We are at 4 days with all the current ingredients in the tank.

Copper qt is done on Saturday and the fish can be isolated, however, I am trying to avoid the latent onset of a bacterial infection in the tank mates.

Metro doesn’t work for marine HLLE, it only works in freshwater fish that have Hexamita infections (usually discus or Oscars)…a different affliction with similar symptoms.

Jay

 

[Sizzlingreef14]

now - for some reason - I see the other replies - are the purple tangs also the same size?

Lol gotta love the internet.

3 purples all same size but all from the same tank. Hierarchies been established and very minor bickering going on back-and-forth. No fin or body damage. Just the occasional tang wag from the alpha. Copper consistantly 2.25-2.5 for 1.5weeks. FWb dip on arrival no flukes and dipped again 4 days ago to check again also negative. Behavior is normal and appetite is strong. As of 14:00 11/30/22 white spots look a little lighter. Other fish remain symptom-free no trace of any other diseases since QT started. I know if bacterial infections will never find out which one it is and less we spend a lot of time and money on it and most treatment is the broad-spectrum approach anyway but I appreciate everyone’s input just to make sure I didn’t miss anything obvious and feel like a DA later!

 

[Sizzlingreef14]

Metro doesn’t work for marine HLLE, it only works in freshwater fish that have Hexamita infections (usually discus or Oscars)…a different affliction with similar symptoms.

Jay

Ahh was reading their website and see that now upon being more awake

 

[MnFish1]

Lol gotta love the internet.

3 purples all same size but all from the same tank. Hierarchies been established and very minor bickering going on back-and-forth. No fin or body damage. Just the occasional tang wag from the alpha. Copper consistantly 2.25-2.5 for 1.5weeks. FWb dip on arrival no flukes and dipped again 4 days ago to check again also negative. Behavior is normal and appetite is strong. As of 14:00 11/30/22 white spots look a little lighter. Other fish remain symptom-free no trace of any other diseases since QT started. I know if bacterial infections will never find out which one it is and less we spend a lot of time and money on it and most treatment is the broad-spectrum approach anyway but I appreciate everyone’s input just to make sure I didn’t miss anything obvious and feel like a DA later!

You should not feel dumb - to me that picture - is not typical - of anything but a significant bacterial infection - which - is also not clear. . Thanks for all of the information. You have treated the fish with an extremely potent antibacterial - and has not helped. I believe Jay suggested Neoymycin - which has a bit of a broader spectrum.

 

[pixelhustler]

New fish with no carbon. Might be HLLE but body does show heavy signs as well not along the lat line

I would guess the erosion itself creates wounds vulnerable to further infection. I have seen some gnarly HLLE progression, especially in blue hippos, but I agree the erosion around the fins doesn’t quite match HLLE.
You seem to know what you’re doing and have seen it progress so I’d go with your gut on this one until it stops spreading.
Personally, introducing Selcon helped the most with my purple tang. It certainly won’t hurt even if the issue is bacterial.