Help me to understand

Scdell · Feb 19, 2019

I need help understanding why people feel the need to "cheap" out with this hobby????
Especially with all this Chinese "knock off" equipment. That's not proven over time, it's just cheaper than the proven equipment.
I had a tank about 20 years ago. I didn't have the money to buy what was right. I tried a lot of DIY stuff. I ended up killing more things for my desire to have a reef tank. I finally gave it up. Realized my desire wasn't helping the animals I put in my tank.
I never lost the desire though. I'm at a point in my life where I can afford the proper equipment. Boy can I tell you how much more fun this hobby is now!!!
Here's the way I see things now. You, me, we, anyone that has a tank, especially an sps tank.
We ARE their God. It is vital that we give our livestock our best effort. For their survival and our enjoyment. But their survival comes first.
I don't go to the store to buy the cheapest dog food I can find. My dogs deserve better.
We as humans tend to devalue lesser life forms. They can't scream, cry or ask for what they want. But they die just like you and me.
I'm responsible for my critters and I'm their God. I'm not going to throw cheap stuff at their survival. I'm going to go with the best I can honestly do.
Let's keep this thread civil please. If it gets into a storm I'll ask the mods to close it.
Thanks for reading.

saltyfilmfolks · Feb 19, 2019

Cuz some folks don’t have that much money. Pretty easy reason.

Scdell · Feb 19, 2019

saltyfilmfolks said:
Cuz some folks don’t have that much money. Pretty easy reason.

Do please edit the last paragraph for language. Thanks.

Edited it. And that's my point. People want but can't afford. Wants over needs. Human nature.

Coastie Reefer · Feb 19, 2019

1. Black boxes ARE proven

2. This hobby isn’t all about money and there are tons of successful budget builds on R2R to prove it

3. You’re not a god, caretaker maybe... but not a god.

saltyfilmfolks · Feb 19, 2019

I wanted a reef and found an affordable way to do to it.

I wanted a BMW so I bought used.

I wanted a bmw cuz it’s safe , I wanted a reef cuz it makes me happy.

I guess we agree.

Scdell · Feb 19, 2019

Coastie Reefer said:
1. Black boxes ARE proven

2. This hobby isn’t all about money and there are tons of successful budget builds on R2R to prove it

3. You’re not a god, caretaker maybe... but not a god.

Yes, technology certainly has changed in 20 years. Probably for the better. Back then you had to have certain things and sps was almost impossible to keep. I beg to differ about the God thing. Their lives are in your hands.

Maacc · Feb 19, 2019

I understand that you are emotional and have strong feelings about this, but typically when one wants to truly understand a perspective different than one's own one might want to refrain from attacking the motives and character of the other side.
There are a lot of reasons for using cheaper equipment such as forgoing equipment for additional labor when you choose this over travel or other pursuits. Perhaps you are an entrepreneur who works from home and while cash flow is limited, being next to the tank all of the time enables you to keep close watch.
As said above, God is an extreme miss-characterization, care taker definitely, steward absolutely, but God absolutely not.

Coastie Reefer · Feb 19, 2019

Scdell said:
I beg to differ about the God thing. Their lives are in your hands.

My daughter’s is too... I’m not her god
(there’s also a reason for the “g” vs “G”)

Scdell · Feb 19, 2019

Coastie Reefer said:
My daughter’s is too... I’m not her god
(there’s also a reason for the “g” vs “G”)

You're not creating her world. You are guding it.

Scdell · Feb 19, 2019

Maacc said:
I understand that you are emotional and have strong feelings about this, but typically when one wants to truly understand a perspective different than one's own one might want to refrain from attacking the motives and character of the other side.
There are a lot of reasons for using cheaper equipment such as forgoing equipment for additional labor when you choose this over travel or other pursuits. Perhaps you are an entrepreneur who works from home and while cash flow is limited, being next to the tank all of the time enables you to keep close watch.
As said above, God is an extreme miss-characterization, care taker definitely, steward absolutely, but God absolutely not.

I asked a question. Don't see any attacking of motives or character. It's all in interpretation.

Coastie Reefer · Feb 19, 2019

Scdell said:
You're not creating her world. You are guding it.

Actually I did a lot more creating of her world than I ever did a fish or coral. Also, it’s my duty and obligation to provide her with clothing, food, education, spiritual guidance, etc etc...

Flippers4pups · Feb 19, 2019

I respectfully disagree with cheap is irresponsible or disrespectful to our live stock. And I’m not god. I say this with the utmost respect.

There are many different ways to have and keep a highly successful reef, many very simple and cheap ways to do that. Mine is an example of that. I’ve said this time and time and time again when threads like this pop up, it’s a personal choice on what equipment you choose to use and how much money is spent. Nothing wrong folks using cheap or the most expensive equipment.

I will never tell anyone otherwise.

I agree with the OP’s statement that this thread should stay civil and open to anyone’s point of view, but will not be allowed to turn ugly and members start flaming each other because of their “ personal choices”.

#reefsqaud

Brad Miller · Feb 19, 2019

If I had a reef tank when I was a lot younger, I wouldn't have been able to do it like I can now....thank God I had freshwater all my life

Scdell · Feb 19, 2019

Brad Miller said:
If I had a reef tank when I was a lot younger, I wouldn't have been able to do it like I can now....thank God I had freshwater all my life

Yeah I was younger too. Maybe I'm questioning all that?

jgvergo · Feb 19, 2019

DIY is a fascinating dimension to the hobby. I take the care of everything in my care with the utmost seriousness. There is no reason they don't go hand-in-hand, especially with the great information and support available from R2R community members!

Scdell · Feb 19, 2019

jgvergo said:
DIY is a fascinating dimension to the hobby. I take the care of everything in my care with the utmost seriousness. There is no reason they don't go hand-in-hand, especially with the great information and support available from R2R community members!

Don't get me wrong please. I'm all for DIY. As long as it's successful. I'm not into DIY for experimenting with livestock.

Turtlesteve · Feb 19, 2019

Sorry I think you're off base here. Is there some correlation between total money spent vs. how healthy someone's corals are? I personally don't see it. The key to success is knowledge, not money. We know far more (collectively) about caring for corals than in the past - but this knowledge is free and it can be applied to DIY and low-cost setups the same as to expensive ones.

I'm new to R2R, having been on that other forum for a long time, but I started my first reef about 20 years ago too. I'm endlessly amazed by what folks will spend money on, based on some perception of need or value. Consider LED's - I love my MarsAqua and SBreef lights. They were 20-25% the cost of any other options. Certainly I could have more features, or maybe more reliability, but the spectra are pretty comparable and they both grow coral. I will happily buy "higher end" lights when the prices come down out of the stratosphere. But for today, everyone makes expensive lights for one reason - the market tolerates the price.

I have a family to feed. If I couldn't grow coral affordably, I wouldn't have an aquarium.

Steve

Scdell · Feb 19, 2019

Turtlesteve said:
Sorry I think you're off base here. Is there some correlation between total money spent vs. how healthy someone's corals are? I personally don't see it. The key to success is knowledge, not money. We know far more (collectively) about caring for corals than in the past - but this knowledge is free and it can be applied to DIY and low-cost setups the same as to expensive ones.

I'm new to R2R, having been on that other forum for a long time, but I started my first reef about 20 years ago too. I'm endlessly amazed by what folks will spend money on, based on some perception of need or value. Consider LED's - I love my MarsAqua and SBreef lights. They were 20-25% the cost of any other options. Certainly I could have more features, or maybe more reliability, but the spectra are pretty comparable and they both grow coral. I will happily buy "higher end" lights when the prices come down out of the stratosphere. But for today, everyone makes expensive lights for one reason - the market tolerates the price.

I have a family to feed. If I couldn't grow coral affordably, I wouldn't have an aquarium.

Steve

There has been and always be two sides of this. One side likes the technology that's available. The other side abhors it. I started my reef about 2 years ago. I swore I could not or would not go the high tech way. Yet here I am doing just that. I'm finding I like it. Why? Probably cause I'm busier. I find I can enjoy looking and studying my reef a lot more. I don't have to try to figure out how to DIY something I can't afford to make it better. Or find something that might do the job on the cheap. Please remember these are just my opinions. I've done it the other way. It didn't turn out well. This is why I'm asking.

Flippers4pups · Feb 19, 2019

Scdell said:
There has been and always be two sides of this. One side likes the technology that's available. The other side abhors it. I started my reef about 2 years ago. I swore I could not or would not go the high tech way. Yet here I am doing just that. I'm finding I like it. Why? Probably cause I'm busier. I find I can enjoy looking and studying my reef a lot more. I don't have to try to figure out how to DIY something I can't afford to make it better. Or find something that might do the job on the cheap. Please remember these are just my opinions. I've done it the other way. It didn't turn out well. This is why I'm asking.

Would you mind posting picture of your reef? We would love to see it!