Help me understand my nutrients? (+ dino problem)

[saltcats]

I've been fighting an outbreak of what I'm pretty sure is dinos in my tank for the last week and a half (don't have a microscope but N and P both tested undetectable and it's a brown slimy bubbly covering that is upsetting my corals so it sounds like the right stuff).

Been dosing NeoNitro and NeoPhos daily to try to get nutrients up, which seemed to be going okay at first (nitrate came up first and then finally started to see the faintest hint of blue in the phos tests), but now I'm getting confused. Both times I've got my phosphate levels to what I'd call 0.05ppm by the Salifert kit (highest value I've managed testing 24 hours post dosing), the next day they've hit 0 despite me adding another dose in between.
My nitrates also drop on those days, so I could understand that perhaps my tank is just consuming all that available phosphate until it runs back out, but that is also where I'm getting confused because it seems like a very fast rate of consumption.

The tank is 10 gallons, set up 2 years ago (it's been an incredibly slow process for me...). Stock as follows:
1 frag pink birdsnest
1 frag duncan (1 head) (it started growing 2 new heads about a month ago and then stopped)
1 frag favites
5 frags zoas (1 is a mini colony the rest are 6 polyps or less)
1 ricordea florida
2 RFA, about 1.5" and 2" across respectively

1 possum wrasse
2 nass snails
5? cerith snails (bought 5 mid-March but as they only come out at night I have no idea how they are doing)

FTS from just before the outbreak for reference of how big/how much coral is in here. Only thing not visible is the duncan.

Is it really plausible for that amount of corals to be using ~5-10ppm nitrate and < 0.05 ppm phosphate daily? Last night I dosed 4ml of NeoPhos which should have given me 0.1ppm to start with, all of which seems to be gone today.

Thanks very much!

 

[Pod_01]

I've been fighting an outbreak of what I'm pretty sure is dinos in my tank for the last week and a half (don't have a microscope but N and P both tested undetectable and it's a brown slimy bubbly covering that is upsetting my corals so it sounds like the right stuff).

Been dosing NeoNitro and NeoPhos daily to try to get nutrients up, which seemed to be going okay at first (nitrate came up first and then finally started to see the faintest hint of blue in the phos tests), but now I'm getting confused. Both times I've got my phosphate levels to what I'd call 0.05ppm by the Salifert kit (highest value I've managed testing 24 hours post dosing), the next day they've hit 0 despite me adding another dose in between.
My nitrates also drop on those days, so I could understand that perhaps my tank is just consuming all that available phosphate until it runs back out, but that is also where I'm getting confused because it seems like a very fast rate of consumption.

The tank is 10 gallons, set up 2 years ago (it's been an incredibly slow process for me...). Stock as follows:
1 frag pink birdsnest
1 frag duncan (1 head) (it started growing 2 new heads about a month ago and then stopped)
1 frag favites
5 frags zoas (1 is a mini colony the rest are 6 polyps or less)
1 ricordea florida
2 RFA, about 1.5" and 2" across respectively

1 possum wrasse
2 nass snails
5? cerith snails (bought 5 mid-March but as they only come out at night I have no idea how they are doing)

FTS from just before the outbreak for reference of how big/how much coral is in here. Only thing not visible is the duncan.

Is it really plausible for that amount of corals to be using ~5-10ppm nitrate and < 0.05 ppm phosphate daily? Last night I dosed 4ml of NeoPhos which should have given me 0.1ppm to start with, all of which seems to be gone today.

Thanks very much!

First I will say, I tried to set up 10gal long time ago and it is hard. Compared to what I had you are champion.
Since I know nothing about your tank, what export methods you have I can speculate where part of your PO4 might be going.

If you take all your surfaces, glass the sand, pump, heater, and the hard scape and try to create 2d projection you might cover a tennis court or more. Yet you only have 10gal of water so ratio of water to surfaces is nothing compared to the ocean. As a result all of those surfaces will just soak up PO4 until they reach your desired target/ equilibrium between your surfaces and water.
So you need to dose the manic potion till equilibrium.

In your case alternative source of Phosphate and N for your corals can be Tropic Marin Plus NP, they claim the phosphorus in this product does not bind to surfaces but bacteria can digest it and the corals can feed on the bacteria. Alternatively get more small fish so they can produce the right food for your corals. Feed the fish so they feed the corals. Win win scenario for all. Coral food is also good idea.

As you can tell I am not fan of dosing PO4 / NO3 from bottle. From my experience algae likes to follow.

Just my 0.2 cents, good luck

 

[biom]

It is the sand and rocks that are binding the phosphate, I used to add .25 ppm daily just to disappear in 5 hours to almost zero. Nitrates are possibly assimilated by heterotrophs or used in denitrification.
Is there any filtration in this tank or you are just relay on WC.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Both times I've got my phosphate levels to what I'd call 0.05ppm by the Salifert kit (highest value I've managed testing 24 hours post dosing), the next day they've hit 0 despite me adding another dose in between.

That's pretty normal for the reason Biom states.

 

[saltcats]

It is the sand and rocks that are binding the phosphate, I used to add .25 ppm daily just to disappear in 5 hours to almost zero. Nitrates are possibly assimilated by heterotrophs or used in denitrification.
Is there any filtration in this tank or you are just relay on WC.

I'm running filter floss (which I haven't been swapping out or cleaning since the nutrients bottomed out) and a small amount of activated carbon (to help with any coral warfare or potential dino toxins? I have heard that carbon won't strip out a meaningful amount of nitrate/phosphate.) It's an AIO tank, I have no other skimmers/reactors/etc.

That's pretty normal for the reason Biom states.

Thanks!

I knew about rocks/sand binding phosphate and so when I started dosing I wasn't surprised to see it stay at 0. The reason I was not sure about this was that I had started to see detectable levels which seemed to stay consistent and increase to 0.05ppm, but every time I actually reach 0.05ppm it hits 0 again the next day. Does this still just sound like binding, and I should just carry on dosing as I have been?

My goal is to maintain about 10ppm nitrate and 0.1ppm phosphate, for now at least. Do those sound reasonable?

 

[saltcats]

First I will say, I tried to set up 10gal long time ago and it is hard. Compared to what I had you are champion.
Since I know nothing about your tank, what export methods you have I can speculate where part of your PO4 might be going.

If you take all your surfaces, glass the sand, pump, heater, and the hard scape and try to create 2d projection you might cover a tennis court or more. Yet you only have 10gal of water so ratio of water to surfaces is nothing compared to the ocean. As a result all of those surfaces will just soak up PO4 until they reach your desired target/ equilibrium between your surfaces and water.
So you need to dose the manic potion till equilibrium.

In your case alternative source of Phosphate and N for your corals can be Tropic Marin Plus NP, they claim the phosphorus in this product does not bind to surfaces but bacteria can digest it and the corals can feed on the bacteria. Alternatively get more small fish so they can produce the right food for your corals. Feed the fish so they feed the corals. Win win scenario for all. Coral food is also good idea.

As you can tell I am not fan of dosing PO4 / NO3 from bottle. From my experience algae likes to follow.

Just my 0.2 cents, good luck

Thanks for your reply!

I have been feeding the fish twice daily as well to help increase the nutrients that way. I was avoiding broadcast coral food for now since I'd read that could feed dinos too, unless I'm misremembering!

I have a 5 micron sock on its way today so I can try to physically remove as much of the dinos as possible so hopefully between that and the dosing something else will outcompete them.

 

[jda]

It can sometimes take a bit longer for rock and sand to bind once you get a bit already bound... same thing, just slows as the aragonite structures more to the interior need to get involved. If you keep adding, eventually you will get a reading.

There is next to no chance that you are zero unless, so I highly recommend a better tool like the Hannah Ultra Low before you add too much more. Something like 10-20 ppb on the Hannah can read clear on Salifert and you might make a different decision if you knew the difference.

If you have established rock and sand, you might never get nitrate to 10. Even if you add it, the denitrifying bacteria will multiply and use it up. This is not really an issue as long as your tank gets nitrogen from other places. Keep feeding your fish and everything will.