Help me with my PH

[BoomCorals]

So as of late I have noticed my PH dropping as low as 7.4. I have a BRS c02 scrubber set up, but it exhausts the media every 5 days, and even then only gets my PH to 7.8. I have used two different PH probes, both calibrated, connected to my apex, and also an API PH test to verify. All 3 match each other on the PH so I'm confident it's correct.

I did the PH test with water, and after 30 minutes in the house, the PH remained at 7.4 which is what it started. Temp went from 78F to 77F. The outside PH test, the PH went from 7.4 to a whopping 8.4 in only 20 minutes. The temp did drop though from 78F to 70F, so I'm not sure if that huge PH increase is expected?

I'm feeling like I need to run a line to the outside for my skimmer intake. However, the line would have to be a solid 30 feet long. The inside diameter would have to be 5/16" to match the skimmer intake nozzle. Is that going to be too long to be effective? The other thing I might have to do instead is install an air exchanger for my fish room. Something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-FV...&qid=1506869740&sr=1-3&keywords=air+exchanger

 

[DSC reef]

I like the idea of the air exchanger

 

[theMeat]

If skimmer is getting fresh air from outside it matters not how long the line, as long as it’s not restricted.
Increase water surface flow in tank and sump as well

 

[XNavyDiver]

The air exchanger sounds like a solid solution but pricy.
As the co2 scrubber goes, here's what I did to extend the life of the media. Connect the air intake side to your skimmer collection cup at the top lid. Moist air is drawn into the reactor and media. The other side is hooked into the air intake of your skimmer. The moist air extended the life of a canister of media to 3 plus weeks.

 

[BoomCorals]

If skimmer is getting fresh air from outside it matters not how long the line, as long as it’s not restricted.
Increase water surface flow in tank and sump as well

Increased flow in tank and sump won't help since the inside ph test indicated more surface agitation won't change anything. :/

 

[BoomCorals]

The air exchanger sounds like a solid solution but pricy.
As the co2 scrubber goes, here's what I did to extend the life of the media. Connect the air intake side to your skimmer collection cup at the top lid. Moist air is drawn into the reactor and media. The other side is hooked into the air intake of your skimmer. The moist air extended the life of a canister of media to 3 plus weeks.

Forgot to mention I did that and 5-7 days is the most I get lol. It was 3-4 before. My simmer apparently sucks a lot (literally!). I have a reef octopus 200 int, though I'm replacing it soon with a lifereef svs3-30.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

If skimmer is getting fresh air from outside it matters not how long the line, as long as it’s not restricted.
Increase water surface flow in tank and sump as well

But to not limit the air flow it will need to be big diameter or pressurized with a pump.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

So as of late I have noticed my PH dropping as low as 7.4. I have a BRS c02 scrubber set up, but it exhausts the media every 5 days, and even then only gets my PH to 7.8. I have used two different PH probes, both calibrated, connected to my apex, and also an API PH test to verify. All 3 match each other on the PH so I'm confident it's correct.

I did the PH test with water, and after 30 minutes in the house, the PH remained at 7.4 which is what it started. Temp went from 78F to 77F. The outside PH test, the PH went from 7.4 to a whopping 8.4 in only 20 minutes. The temp did drop though from 78F to 70F, so I'm not sure if that huge PH increase is expected?

I'm feeling like I need to run a line to the outside for my skimmer intake. However, the line would have to be a solid 30 feet long. The inside diameter would have to be 5/16" to match the skimmer intake nozzle. Is that going to be too long to be effective? The other thing I might have to do instead is install an air exchanger for my fish room. Something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-FV...&qid=1506869740&sr=1-3&keywords=air+exchanger

Your home sounds at the high end of CO2, and may not even be healthy for you. To have a full pH difference between indoor and outdoor air implies the CO2 indoors is a 10 fold difference in CO2. WIth 400 ppm outside, that might mean close to 4,000 ppm inside. That's really not healthy.

https://www.osha.gov/Publications/3430indoor-air-quality-sm.pdf

Carbon dioxide (CO2)

CO2 is a colorless, odorless, and tasteless gas (36). It is a product of completed carbon combustion and the by-product of biological respiration. ASHRAE states that CO2 concentrations in acceptable outdoor air typically range from 300-500 ppm. Adverse health effects from CO2 may occur since it is an asphyxiant gas. At concentrations above 15,000 ppm, some loss of mental acuity has been noted (36). The OSHA PEL is 5,000 ppm as an 8-hour TWA. The CO2 levels can be used as a rough indicator of the effectiveness of ventilation (26), and excessive population density in a structure. CO2 increases in buildings with higher occupant densities, and is diluted and removed from buildings based on outdoor air ventilation rates. Therefore, examining levels of CO2 in indoor air can reveal information regarding occupant densities and outdoor air ventilation rates. High CO2 levels may indicate a problem with overcrowding or inadequate outdoor air ventilation rates

 

[Ty Hamatake]

I know this may sound silly, but a second scrubber could really do the trick. I was having the same problems when I was only running one so I added a "humidifier" and a second scrubber and now I get close to five weeks before both are exhausted. It cost 30 bucks on BRS to piece together a second one and in my mind it was well worth it. Also, what media are you using?

 

[BoomCorals]

But to not limit the air flow it will need to be big diameter or pressurized with a pump.

That's what I was afraid of. I'm guessing an airstone pump won't cut it either lol

 

[Ty Hamatake]

Oh, and have you considered dosing saturated limewater?

 

[XNavyDiver]

Forgot to mention I did that and 5-7 days is the most I get lol. It was 3-4 before. My simmer apparently sucks a lot (literally!). I have a reef octopus 200 int, though I'm replacing it soon with a lifereef svs3-30.

Well, shoot. I ended up unhooking the scrubber just a few days ago anyways, as the pH was climbing into the 8.6-8.8 range. Seasonal thing maybe? Ill hold onto to it for next summer, when I imagine the pH will start falling back down to 7.8 again.

 

[BoomCorals]

Your home sounds at the high end of CO2, and may not even be healthy for you. To have a full pH difference between indoor and outdoor air implies the CO2 indoors is a 10 fold difference in CO2. WIth 400 ppm outside, that might mean close to 4,000 ppm inside. That's really not healthy.

https://www.osha.gov/Publications/3430indoor-air-quality-sm.pdf

Carbon dioxide (CO2)

CO2 is a colorless, odorless, and tasteless gas (36). It is a product of completed carbon combustion and the by-product of biological respiration. ASHRAE states that CO2 concentrations in acceptable outdoor air typically range from 300-500 ppm. Adverse health effects from CO2 may occur since it is an asphyxiant gas. At concentrations above 15,000 ppm, some loss of mental acuity has been noted (36). The OSHA PEL is 5,000 ppm as an 8-hour TWA. The CO2 levels can be used as a rough indicator of the effectiveness of ventilation (26), and excessive population density in a structure. CO2 increases in buildings with higher occupant densities, and is diluted and removed from buildings based on outdoor air ventilation rates. Therefore, examining levels of CO2 in indoor air can reveal information regarding occupant densities and outdoor air ventilation rates. High CO2 levels may indicate a problem with overcrowding or inadequate outdoor air ventilation rates

I'm going to test the other floors of my house too with the aerated water. Will post results.

 

[BoomCorals]

Oh, and have you considered dosing saturated limewater?

I was using that but with as little as I needed to dose, it was only helping a little. I needed to move away from kalk anyways and use 2 part now.

 

[sghera64]

So as of late I have noticed my PH dropping as low as 7.4. I have a BRS c02 scrubber set up, but it exhausts the media every 5 days, and even then only gets my PH to 7.8. I have used two different PH probes, both calibrated, connected to my apex, and also an API PH test to verify. All 3 match each other on the PH so I'm confident it's correct.

I did the PH test with water, and after 30 minutes in the house, the PH remained at 7.4 which is what it started. Temp went from 78F to 77F. The outside PH test, the PH went from 7.4 to a whopping 8.4 in only 20 minutes. The temp did drop though from 78F to 70F, so I'm not sure if that huge PH increase is expected?

I'm feeling like I need to run a line to the outside for my skimmer intake. However, the line would have to be a solid 30 feet long. The inside diameter would have to be 5/16" to match the skimmer intake nozzle. Is that going to be too long to be effective? The other thing I might have to do instead is install an air exchanger for my fish room. Something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-FV...&qid=1506869740&sr=1-3&keywords=air+exchanger

Your pH test showed a 1.0 increase in pH. That is huge. Seems very likely that your house has a very high CO2 concentration. Now that it is fall outside, could you try opening the windows for a day. Use a fan to blow air into the space, or room, in which the aquarium sets. Then tell us what impact that had on the pH.

I had a similar problem and I ran a 1/2" pipe from the outside to my skimmer. Using 1/2 inch PVC pipe allowed me to run over 30 feet with virtually zero pressure drop. Now the bad news. It seems like gas exchange at the surface competes too well with gas exchange at the skimmer. So you don't exactly get the full of fact that you are seeking. I ended up pumping additional air from the outside through air stones in the sump. That is what it took for me.

Bottom line: if you do not reduce or resolve the CO2 issue in the home, then you have to double your efforts to bring outside air in or use a CO2 scrubber. I think the CO2 scrubber concept can work for you but I believe it will be very expensive.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Now that it is fall outside, could you try opening the windows for a day. Use a fan to blow air into the space, or room, in which the aquarium sets. Then tell us what impact that had on the pH.

I'ts probably already winter in Wisconsin. lol

 

[rob safron]

I have a similar situation, pH high of 8.1 but overnight down to 7.3. I run a co2 scrubber plumed to outside air, and only need to change media every 10-20 Days. I have had all my windows open for the last 7 Days including 1 next to my tank and I did not get any bump in pH. I dose AF 3 part. Also vinegar dose, 45 mls/day in a 120. Could that amount of vinegar keep pH down that low with large daily swings (7.3-8.1)? Does not seem to be a co2 issue.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I have a similar situation, pH high of 8.1 but overnight down to 7.3. I run a co2 scrubber plumed to outside air, and only need to change media every 10-20 Days. I have had all my windows open for the last 7 Days including 1 next to my tank and I did not get any bump in pH. I dose AF 3 part. Also vinegar dose, 45 mls/day in a 120. Could that amount of vinegar keep pH down that low with large daily swings (7.3-8.1)? Does not seem to be a co2 issue.

What time of day do you dose the vinegar?

1 mL of vinegar per gallon of aquarium water will drop pH instantly by about 0.3 pH units (the exact drop depends on the alkalinity and the starting pH).

Then as it is metabolized to CO2, there is another similarly sized drop. The extent that this drop is seen will depend on how the tank is aerated as the CO2 is produced, and whether the tank has more or less CO2 than the air at the time.

 

[rob safron]

I dose equally every 2 hours from 9 am to 9 pm. None overnight.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I dose equally every 2 hours from 9 am to 9 pm. None overnight.

Maybe dose from just 9am-2 pm so there is less metabolism during the night.

You can also saturated the vinegar with calcium hydroxide to eliminate the initial pH drop entirely.