Help- moving from carbon & lanth dosing to refugium

[Pondweed]

So I've been doing this carbon dosing & lanthanum dosing for maybe a year or 2 now? Things have improved a fair bit with my tank since.

It's just all getting a bit expensive, I'm in Australia so using some local products all aquarium made a bit skeptical on going for some pool grade phosphate remover lanth based product.

I've read that things can go a bit crazy when you stop dosing? But I cant really get a fuge going with the lanth dosing. Assuming someone has done the swap over before? Any tips/ suggestions

 

[jsker]

Lanthanum is for phosphates. Carbon just really polishes the water and removes toxic particles like ammonia. My questions is why are you dosing Lanthanun chloride?
If your phosphate run high then GFO would be the other method of reducing phosphates. You can also try a bio media in the sump.

 

[Pondweed]

I think it was leeching from rocks, its been pretty good for a while now. The carbon is liquid carbon similar to vodka dosing

 

[Pondweed]

I think it was leeching from rocks, its been pretty good for a while now. The carbon is liquid carbon similar to vodka dosing

 

[Pondweed]

Its liquid carbon similar to vodka dosing. The lanth ive cut back a lot on, im not sure why mine runs so high i think a lot leeched from rocks.

Ive got 5ltr of siporax in the sump so nitrates have been at 3ppm for ages.

Just want to free up these 2 dosing pumps and want a more natural approach with a fuge but scared of the drawbacks from switching

 

[Jason_MrFrags]

Biopellets?

 

[ZaneTer]

@Pondweed
What drawbacks do you think there are to running a refugiums?

 

[Pondweed]

No drawbacks that's why I'm trying to make the move

ATM I use liquid carbon (which is similar to bio pellets/ vodka & vinegar dosing) use this for nitrate and the small work is does on phosphate then use lanth for the remaining phosphate

All levels are low - nitrate 3ppm and phos 0.016 currently on this system

Just want to stop dosing these things. I don't know if I'll get a boom in phosphate or nitrate before the fuge starts handling the excess levels. I'll probably slowly reduce the dosing to try get it a chance to catch up rather than stop cold turkey.

 

[ZaneTer]

Personally I would not try mixing multiple methods of nutrient removal. I run only a fuge for chaeto and a skimmer. It is very easy to strip all nutrients from the water until you become limited from one or the other. Keep this in mind and don’t let your chaeto grow too large.

 

[tastyfish]

What are your current NO3 and PO4 levels?

You need to gradually transition across once you have the refugium set up to allow the algae to grow and mature.

If your primary issue is PO4, then an algae scrubber may be a better choice as they seem to perform better in PO4 control. My nitrates have been 0-0.25ppm with a heavy stocking with a refugium, but phosphates still require GFO use.

 

[Reef Jeff]

Wow guys. Read his post. He is trying to SWITCH from lanthanum and carbon (not GAC) dosing to a refugium, not mix methods. He’s saying he can’t start a refugium while still using the dosing methods and he’s asking how to stop or taper off dosing so he can get the refugium to grow.

I don’t use a refugium, but here is what I would do. Hopefully someone who has made the switch can chime in. Tastyfish posted while I was typing and gave good advice. I would have my refugium plumbed and ready to go and make sure I have a source for chaeto or whatever macro algae you plan to use. Then stop dosing both carbon and lanthanum. No need to taper off. Measure nitrates and phosphates daily until they are detectable. Your system may already have a high population of nitrate reducing and phosphate harboring bacteria so it may take some time to start seeing nitrates and phosphates, or you may see phosphates climb first while nitrates stay very low (or vice versa). Once you start getting detectable readings, start a small batch of chaeto and let it grow at its own pace. You may find chaeto won’t grow well at first since the existing bacteria will continue reducing the nitrates and/or phosphates limiting the charto growth. If you have a heavy bio load this may be less of an issue. Equilibrium will occur when the bacteria populations drop (as a result of eliminating the carbon dosing source) and then the nutrient levels will rise and the chaeto will take over the job the bacteria was doing. If you cannot get nitrates or phosphates up enough to support chaeto then just stay with it until you can. You could dose NaNO3 and/or KH2PO4 to keep levels detectable for the chaeto but that will keep the bacteria alive as well and slow the transition. It’s hard to predict how long it will take your system to reach a new equillibrium or what that new equillibrium might look like. Simplified explanation, but you get the idea.

 

[tastyfish]

Ha

Wow guys. Read his post. He is trying to SWITCH from lanthanum and carbon (not GAC) dosing to a refugium, not mix methods. He’s saying he can’t start a refugium while still using the dosing methods and he’s asking how to stop or taper off dosing so he can get the refugium to grow.

I don’t use a refugium, but here is what I would do. Hopefully someone who has made the switch can chime in. Tastyfish posted while I was typing and gave good advice. I would have my refugium plumbed and ready to go and make sure I have a source for chaeto or whatever macro algae you plan to use. Then stop dosing both carbon and lanthanum. No need to taper off. Measure nitrates and phosphates daily until they are detectable. Your system may already have a high population of nitrate reducing and phosphate harboring bacteria so it may take some time to start seeing nitrates and phosphates, or you may see phosphates climb first while nitrates stay very low (or vice versa). Once you start getting detectable readings, start a small batch of chaeto and let it grow at its own pace. You may find chaeto won’t grow well at first since the existing bacteria will continue reducing the nitrates and/or phosphates limiting the charto growth. If you have a heavy bio load this may be less of an issue. Equilibrium will occur when the bacteria populations drop (as a result of eliminating the carbon dosing source) and then the nutrient levels will rise and the chaeto will take over the job the bacteria was doing. If you cannot get nitrates or phosphates up enough to support chaeto then just stay with it until you can. You could dose NaNO3 and/or KH2PO4 to keep levels detectable for the chaeto but that will keep the bacteria alive as well and slow the transition. It’s hard to predict how long it will take your system to reach a new equillibrium or what that new equillibrium might look like. Simplified explanation, but you get the idea.

Jeff, the reason for phasing it in is that if you stop dosing, without a mature nutrient export method, you will likely see a spike. Also very high levels of nitrates can actually impede macro algae growth.

So, I would advise getting the refugium set-up, the right flow and light (you might also want to check levels of trace elements such as iron, molybdenum, iodine, potassium and boron) stick in some macro algae and dial down the dosing until the macro algae grows. As the algae grows, the surface area for nutrient uptake increases, reduce or stop the dosing.

I've run a large refugium for 4 years and helped several reefers set up their refugium and transisiton from other methods.

Hope this helps

 

[Reef Jeff]

Ha


Jeff, the reason for phasing it in is that if you stop dosing, without a mature nutrient export method, you will likely see a spike. Also very high levels of nitrates can actually impede macro algae growth.

So, I would advise getting the refugium set-up, the right flow and light (you might also want to check levels of trace elements such as iron, molybdenum, iodine, potassium and boron) stick in some macro algae and dial down the dosing until the macro algae grows. As the algae grows, the surface area for nutrient uptake increases, reduce or stop the dosing.

I've run a large refugium for 4 years and helped several reefers set up their refugium and transisiton from other methods.

Hope this helps

Yes, makes sense. I was basing it on my experience with dosing. I used NOPOX for several months until I bottomed out NO3 and PO4. I then stopped dosing expecting a spike. I never got the spike. My NO3 and PO4 remain between zero and a very low detectable levels so I dose Nitrates and phosphates to maintain my targets. It’s interesting how different systems react to the methods we use. Wanted the OP to be aware of what could occur.