Same here took a few try's but finally put chicken wire on my frame, as the netting was trapping baby birds, and I had to cut them out. I cannot remove my cover until all the friggen cranes, and herons finish migrating or they eat my fish. I live on the north shore of lake ErieThat's why I put a net over my pond in the fall, same reason I monitor the inputs into my aquarium.
Appreciate the feedback and appreciate the good conversation. When I stated I was pushing it with 5 fish in a 125, it's because of the total bioload in my system. On top of the fish. I have a pretty large collection of corals. When i cycled my 125. I took all the rock from my 70 gallon and put it in the 125. The 70 gallon was a mixed reef heavy on the sps side. I sold all of my sps except for the purple stylophora.
I get what you are saying, but you came here asking for help. If your water chemistry is good, then it's either too much too fast, too much light, too much/little flow, or temperature. In my head I knocked off the temp, flow, and light issues. They are easy to spot. To me, there is no other conclusion than juvenile tank syndrome. Unless you have a fish in there eating corals.
Infection seems a likely hypothesis at this point based on the conversation and the other thread I found with nearly identical pics of tissue recession. It could explain why many corals are thriving but a few are not. Most other issues would be affecting the whole tank or at least more of the tank.
In my experience over the past year, I find that corals are a nutrient sink more than adding to the max bioload you can support. The more thriving corals I've had the less nutrients I have to export. Right now, with my dozen fish and 40ish coral frags, I am feeding 5x per day on an autofeeder (for the chromis, wrasse, anthia), once per day some frozen mysis or nori, once per day phyto, and broadcast feeding reef roids or reef chili every other day. With all that going in, I still have to dose 5-10ml of Neophos every day, and occasionally nitrates to keep my numbers from bottoming out. I also have to keep my refugium light dialed way down.
I agree. I have always wondered if Immature tank syndrome was just another way of saying that, among other things, maybe older tanks develop a biome that is more robust in handling infection when it happens.
How are you feeding the reef roids? That stuff is super dirty. I am surprised that you are not high on nitrate and phosphate based on the feeding schedule alone. I guess your refugium is worth its eight in gold lol.
Are you dosing magnesium?
Again, I think you’re conflating two different issues. I agree with you that bottled bacteria is unnecessary for a established/cycled tank/pond. But there is a difference between the establishment of nitrifying bacteria and the biome of a mature reef tank. It is not just nitrifying bacteria and the main 7-8 parameters being stable that is needed for many marine animals to thrive in a reef tank. It’s not completely understood and it’s not something you can really test for, but it’s virtually impossible for a three month old tank, even when seeded with established live rock, to have a balanced and mature biome. In an immature tank there are hundreds, if not thousands of species of bacteria fighting it out for real estate and for resources, its a volatile environment, it takes time for the biome to reach equilibrium. Your tank will go through several phases where one species or type of bacteria/microfauna dominates and is then out-competed before the tank reaches a point where there is a balanced and stable biome/food chain/ecosystem.
Hey thanks for your thoughts. I assure you I do fully grasp that complexity. The previous poster's comments were really talking about bioload which is directly referring to nitrifying bacteria. I was responding to the previous poster's notion that the bioload of my dozen very small fish and corals was too much or that 5 fish was pushing it for his 125. To me comments like that are explicitly speaking to nitrifying bacteria populations keeping up with the nutrient load, not the overall diversity / balance of biome in a system. I do think my tank is largely complete fish-wise, but they are mostly small and all peaceful. 5 of the 12 is a school of green chromis, for example, 2 are peaceful timid firefish. I might add one or two small goby type fish but probably not much more. All of this is likely irrelevant to sudden tissue loss in certain corals.
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The BRS video you linked is looking at nitrifying bacteria. That is only a tiny piece of the puzzle when we are talking about the biome of a mature tank. I never said that adding live rock doesn’t help a tank mature faster, it absolutely does, but you have a bunch of dry rock that is essentially free real estate that still has to go through that maturing/balancing process, the entire tank still has to reach equilibrium, the only case when this doesn’t happen is when you transfer an entire tank without adding new rock.Hey thanks for your thoughts. I assure you I do fully grasp that complexity. The previous poster's comments were really talking about bioload which is directly referring to nitrifying bacteria. I was responding to the previous poster's notion that the bioload of my dozen very small fish and corals was too much or that 5 fish was pushing it for his 125. To me comments like that are explicitly speaking to nitrifying bacteria populations keeping up with the nutrient load, not the overall diversity / balance of biome in a system. I do think my tank is largely complete fish-wise, but they are mostly small and all peaceful. 5 of the 12 is a school of green chromis, for example, 2 are peaceful timid firefish. I might add one or two small goby type fish but probably not much more. All of this is likely irrelevant to sudden tissue loss in certain corals.
I do politely challenge the notion that there are no circumstances where a new tank could have a diverse biome over the first few months. BRS has just wrapped up an experiment to gather empirical evidence around just that topic (link below). I was setting up my tank as that was going on and used some of the techniques that were showing the most diverse biome - Ocean direct sand, established live rock, and coral. You suggest that it doesn't matter that I moved 15lbs of well established rock, I think it matters very much. There is a point where it does make a difference as if you move everything from a fully established tank to another, you're going to still have a fully established tank in short order. I also think that testing methodologies are being developed and used (e.g. Aquabiomics) so I don't think it's fair to say biome maturity / diversity is unknowable, untestable as it is quickly becoming just that. To that end, I've ordered an Aquabiomics test to help put this debate to rest on my tank as well or prove everyone right that my tank has maturing to do. I realize this is a quickly evolving area of the science of our tanks, but I prefer to keep working to make things knowable vs continuing to suggest that all tanks are unable to support corals for, according to at least one post in this thread, up to a year.
I started my tank with some live rock, Ocean direct sand, and corals - all 3 of which scored in their top 4 for diverse biome after 1 month, those 3 tanks scoring in the 70-80+ percentile. I combined all 3 in my approach so I hypothesize that if my results follow, and my tank is 3 months further down the road, that I should have a solidly diverse biome. As I mentioned, I ordered my own test to see if that hypothesis pans out - stay tuned.
As I have stipulated previously in this thread, I totally understand that newer tanks suffer a myriad of challenges for a myriad of reasons. I've also demonstrated that I've avoided nearly all of those through experience, careful research, and daily attentiveness. Could there be an issue lacking in the biome that is causing this tissue necrosis in my corals, a lack of something that might offer protection, for example - sure. However, I tend to believe if that were the case, either problems would have appeared more widespread, or more gradual in nature vs just one day out of the blue a number of corals go south that were thriving. I've also been pointed to multiple instances of something nearly identical happening to well established tanks through this conversation.
Therefore, nothing is really pointing to "immature tank" as an obvious cause to me, it's a diagnosis of, at best - exclusion, at worst - convenience, that many people on this thread jumped to without exploring any other possibilities. That's where I have pushed back as it feels like punting on the real work, and quite frankly, many of the comments have been patronizing, and some people have acted like this is some justified punishment they're all too happy to let me endure for my sins of building this tank too fast.
Test Results are in and they will surprise. Thank you @aquabiomics | By BRStv Shorts | Facebook
Test Results are in and they will surprise. Thank you @aquabiomics
With all due respect, that video is about biome, not nitrifying bacteria. It was literally an experiment crafted to get after the best way to establish a diverse biome in a new tank quickly. It started with this video:
Hey thanks for asking! I was just thinking of posting a quick update. Things have stabilized at this point. In the end, I lost 7-8 SPS frags, but then the carnage seemed to end. I have 1 acro frag that still seems happy and even showing signs of growth. I did try treating with Cipro for a week but it didn't have any effect on the last few frags where the tissue was still disappearing. After the cipro treatment, I put fresh carbon in and did a 20 gallon water change (on 90G volume) and my tank really perked up. All of the rest of my coral (mostly LPS and zoas) seemed to be doing fine, but after the water change and carbon, they started looking REALLY good. I have new levels of polyp extension on them and for the past week or so that has continued. I sent away a pair of aquabiomics tests but looks like I won't get results back until May based on their batches so I'll report back on what they find.
Hi, it's great hearing your tank's getting better, well done persisting with it! It's our worst nightmare to experience something like this and I hope it doesn't re-occur again. I've only lost a single coral to RTN, it lost all its flesh in 1-week and to this day, I don't know what caused it. Nobody likes seeing their tank unhappy so I can fully understand the situation you were in.
I've found this thread an interesting read, your honesty about the issue is appreciated and I'm glad you kept active with your replies.... sometimes, certain things can wear you down....
