Help on reducing nitrates

andreasch · Aug 23, 2018

Hello friends,

I just setup my first reef tank and have it working only one week now. I used dry rock and now is in the process of cycling. I bought almost all the equipment i need (i think) but the only thing left is that i didnt get anything for reducing nitrates (btw is it nitrate or nitrite ?

) . So i wanted to see your opinions on what to buy for that. Shall i go for a denitrate reactor? The guy who helped me setup the tank suggested me this "TMC V2 Bio React 1000 Pellet Reactor. ( https://www.h2oaquatics.co.uk/filtration-skimmers/tmc-v2bio-react-1000-pellet-reactor ). What is your opinion about it? Is it a good solution to go for?

Thank you guys

Jrainey312 · Aug 23, 2018

Well your going to have to wait maybe a month or more for your tank to fully cycle before you worry about nitrates. Also is your rock cured? That's something else you might want to research before worrying about any nutrients. Patients is key in this hobby

Crabs McJones · Aug 23, 2018

Reducing nitrates can be done a couple of ways. Biopellet reactors are definitely one of the methods. Another would be a refugium filled with macro algae to consume nitrate and phosphate. But the most tried and true method would be water changes. Take out the old nitrate filled water and replace it with fresh nitrate free saltwater

but definitely wait until your cycle is complete before doing anything. Implementing any of these to soon can prolong your tanks cycle.

andreasch · Aug 23, 2018

Ye i know ill have to wait. Just thought to make my research from now so when time comes ill be ready on what to do or what to buy

@Jrainey312 my rock was dry. It needs to be cured? If yes, then i didnt do anything about it. I just cleaned them with freshwater for couple of days before i dry them again and add them in the tank. @Crabs Mcjones do you consider that pellet reactor is not a good solution compared to other 2? And if i go with a reactor, the one i sent you in the link is a good one?

Katrina71 · Aug 23, 2018

Chaeto in a refugium is a great way to reduce nitrates and probably introduce some pods to your tank. The easiest thing to try first.

Jrainey312 · Aug 23, 2018

I personally dont have experience with curing rock. Because I bought live rock from my lfs. But from what I read I think you need to cure it my understanding is curing is for anything that is dead on the rock to come off the rock, which would also raise your nitrates. But maybe someone else will chime in on this subject

Katrina71 · Aug 23, 2018

Keep it simple.

IMO

Mikedawg · Aug 23, 2018

I would wait until tank cycles as mentioned above before you worry about excessive nitrates; may turn out that you don't have a problem and saved yourself some money by being patient. Most LFSs over here are not charitable organizations and have certain reasons to recommend expensive equipment that you don't need. Carefully measure your water parameters during and after cycling and you may well be pleasantly surprised!

And remember that for certain species of coral you'll want some nitrates to keep them healthy.

dwest · Aug 23, 2018

andreasch said:
Hello friends,

I just setup my first reef tank and have it working only one week now. I used dry rock and now is in the process of cycling. I bought almost all the equipment i need (i think) but the only thing left is that i didnt get anything for reducing nitrates (btw is it nitrate or nitrite ? ) . So i wanted to see your opinions on what to buy for that. Shall i go for a denitrate reactor? The guy who helped me setup the tank suggested me this "TMC V2 Bio React 1000 Pellet Reactor. ( https://www.h2oaquatics.co.uk/filtration-skimmers/tmc-v2bio-react-1000-pellet-reactor ). What is your opinion about it? Is it a good solution to go for?

Thank you guys

I think the worst thing to do now is ..... something. That’s right, don’t even think about nitrates for several months. Let your system stabilize, get good test kits, then see where your tank is at.

Crabs McJones · Aug 23, 2018

andreasch said:
Ye i know ill have to wait. Just thought to make my research from now so when time comes ill be ready on what to do or what to buy @Jrainey312 my rock was dry. It needs to be cured? If yes, then i didnt do anything about it. I just cleaned them with freshwater for couple of days before i dry them again and add them in the tank. @Crabs Mcjones do you consider that pellet reactor is not a good solution compared to other 2? And if i go with a reactor, the one i sent you in the link is a good one?

Biopellets are a good solution with proven results. Just bear in mind the pellets do need replacing eventually

brandon429 · Aug 23, 2018

Most nitrate reduction schemes are in place to counteract a sandbed packed full of spent waste. Occasionally NR is used to offset a large fish bioload or not as counterbalance to keeping a filthy sandbed, 4% of the time

Consider not following normal sandbed rules, and using no form of boosted nitrate removal. So many thousands of reefers use no form of fancy nitrate removal, with the right fish load balances, and no where for their poop to hide until 2025, nitrate is used in the reef tank by plants (Sometimes, not all of them) and denitrating zones in rocks if the import/export balances are right

Water changes handles the rest when in balance. wc doesn’t remove the source for nitrate, they just reset top end amounts and then they build up again between water changes

If I were to search all forums for an hour, I’d have trouble finding aftermarket nitrate setups not running about full waste sandbeds, meaning I can’t even find the 4% while trying to. I remember reading a few setups where the sandbed was not there, or it was cleaned vs packed with waste, and they used denitrators to lessen water change work a little, those are the right balances for use imo. The lowest priority purchase in reefing is a nitrate reducer considering how easy it is to plan around them. The least required to know test parameter in reefing is -nitrite- we don’t need to know it at any phase including cycling, see the microbiology of cycling thread sentence #1 first post. That’s a helpful way to distinguish the two when planning a reef. Nitrate is handy for algae control tuning, algae problems are its impact, and nitrite can’t even be tested accurately in 95% of hobby test cases anyway (api) and nitrite has no impact for us anyway. Cycling is assessed by submersion time and ammonia oxidation proofing, the other two params have no bearing on the cycle, but they’re incidentally tested (and mis read or mis indicated) routinely.

Most old school cycling materials say to test all three and react accordingly. No new school material says that, it’s ammonia-submersion time when using the most up to date science for cycling.

BedrockIOMC · Aug 23, 2018

By the way nitrites turn into nitrates

lapin · Aug 23, 2018

Any of the solutions above are good choices. Add to that an algae scrubber. You should plan for the one you find the easiest to manage. Consider maint, cost and the room it takes up. I set up my system 8 months ago with the thought I would use a sulfer de-nitrater. Right now with my fuge, accidental algae scrubber, skimmer (6 hours a day), weekly water changes and in-tank macro algaes my nitrates are between .75 and 1.0

Lasse · Aug 23, 2018

Let´s get this right - most N released by the fish (some talk about 80 %) as NH3/NH4 through the gills. The rest will be as organic N in the pop. If you feed the right amount - no overfeeding - fish and other animals will eat all food. Hence - around 70 - 80 % of the N will hit the water column directly as NH3/NH4. NH3 is a gas and NH4 is the ion from NH3. These two act as a couple and the pH manage how much of each species of N it will be in the water at any given time. Higher pH - more NH3 - lesser NH4. If you take away NH3 from the water column the rest of the NH3/NH4 complex will directly take the same per cent relationship that the pH give. Example - if you have 1 ppm NH3 and 9 ppm NH4 in a solution - taking away 1 ppm NH3 - will result in a new combination - now 0.9 ppm NH3 and 0.81 ppm NH4 if the pH is the same. If the complex NH3/NH4 will be in the aquaria for a short while - the nitrification process will transfer all NH3/NH4 into nitrate (NO3). And this is what you will read in the test. However - there is a way to reduce the N content before it become NO3. Because NH3 is a gas and the complex will give more NH3 if the origin NH3 will be taken away - you can use an oversized skimmer in order to take out NH3 from the water and into the air. Hence - it will be lesser N converted to NO3 in the nitrification process.

Lets look at the around 20 % that still is in the pop as organic nitrogen. Some animals will eat it, taking up some N in their biomass but, normally, bacteria will transform the rest into NH3/NH4 complex in the water column. This will rise the NH3/NH4 in the water column and it will either will be transformed to NO3 by nitrification or be taking out by gas exchange. Some will be build into corals and algae too because there is usually a preference for NH3/NH4 by algae and zooxanthella.

What will this result in? An investment in an oversized skimmer will take away a lot of NH3, hence give lesser NO3 in the water column. Maybe the first thing to think about.

However -sometimes, in certain set ups or in time - you do not want an oversized skimmer - you need to handle produced NH3/NH4 with the nitrification process and get a NO3 build up in the water column.

When you come to this stage - there is a lot of different ways to reduce the NO3 like fuges, adding organic carbon as Dissolved Organic Carbon (DOC, can be of different or combined origin), using Bio Pellets (that contain bound organic carbon that slowly will be released as DOC), anaerobic denitrification of different types (Deeep Sand Bed, denitrification reactor or sulphur based reactors). In small aquaria WC (Water Change) can be rather effective too.

But it will take some time before you are there and if you get a rather coral rich aquarium - algae and corals will bind a lot of N - hence taking down the NO3 levels - and the NO3 problem will be that you have to add it.

Therefore - as many already have stated - take it easy and let the time tell you if you need to act or not. Notice - if you measure NO3 during the start up phase - you will get false (and high) readings of NO3 - start to monitor NO3 when the aquaria is fully cycled - not before.

Sincerely Lasse