Help: P04 and N03 deficit

[sil40sx]

I've been checking my P04 and N03 for the past couple of days with new reagents. It prompted me to do the testing because my millies are getting pale and poor PE's, other SPS are ok, but not great.

P04 ranges from 0.00 to 0.01, and N03 always zero. I removed my GFO couple days ago, and still have same reading yesterday thats why I dosed 1 gm stump remover yesterday afternoon and got 2ppm N03, then I checked tonight its back to zero, I guess I can dose it for a few more days with same amount and test again.

My P04 is still zero. I ordered NeoPhos and should be here by tomorrow, my question is, is it OK to correct both by dosing these chemicals at the same time, or I'll let N03 stabilized first before increasing my P04?

My total water volume is about 60g, I feed 2 cubes (mysis and brine) and assorted pellets daily. Reef roids and Fuel twice a week (alternately). I also dose KZ flatworm stop and Pohls extra twice a week. I have a 2" blue tang, Blotchy anthias, CBB, mandarine, 2 small clowns, small blue flasher wrasse, big pintail wrasse, possum wrasse, small cardinal, and a catalina goby (does that count? LOL). I replace my filters 2-3 times a week, depending how fast they get clogged. I believe my skimmer is rated for my tank. (NYOS 120 on a Reefer 250)

My sandbed have no algae, just some GHA here and there on the rocks (treating it currently with Vibrant, and manual removal). My DYI ATS took care of all algae on my sandbed.

 

[KrisReef]

Your exporters (ATS, Skimmer, Corals, GHA ) are removing nutrients faster than you are adding. Feed more, your fish will love it.

 

[sil40sx]

I would love that too. I like watching my fish eats. Haha

I already started feeding reef roids and fuel for 3 consecutive days now. I’ll add one more frozen cube on their daily diet

 

[Lasse]

IMO - You have empty all of your stored nutrient - the consumption of nutrients from your corals and algae are larger than the input and production. Therefore - it will take some time before you are able to see anything in the water column - everything you add will be consumed directly.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[sil40sx]

What do you suggest I would do to correct the balance in my tanks chemistry? Does my plan of correction would be appropriate?

 

[Lasse]

I use own made solutions from lab grade/food grad chemicals. With nitrate - IMO - it is not so important to have a correct stock solution because it is difficult to measure and it fair enough to be around 1-5 ppm. I use KNO3 or NaNO3. Here in Sweden - food grade can be found in grocery stores. I do a stock solution of 40 gram NaNO3 or KNO3 and fill up to 500 ml with RO/DI water. 1 ml of this solution to 100 litre akvarium water gives a rise of around 0.5 ppm NO3. This is not exact at all but you need to measure for NO3 and you will learn how much you need. It is fair enough. With PO4 it is a little bit more sensitive and you need to be pretty carefully when you make the stock solution. I use KH2PO4 - lab grade - 4.3 gram and fill up to 1000 ml. 1 ml/100 l of this stock solution give a rise of 0.03 ppm/100 l. Even in this case - you need to measure and learn how much you need to use. Smaller mistakes can be accepted - but you have to measure. The first time - start the dosing rather low and measure. I suppose that the stuff you ordered works but I have seen some problems with stump remover (I have never used that) because of lack of quality. I think that your plan looks good, you can dose them at the same time - I prefer mornings before light going on but as I say take it carefully in the start. My goals are 0.04 - 0.1 PO4 and 1 to 5 ppm NO3. Different persons have different goal.

However - no idea how these chemicals act together with vibrant - never ever have use that

Sincerely Lasse

 

[sil40sx]

I figured out my dosing measurements today to keep them at 0.02 P04 and 2ppm N03.

For N03, I get consistent consumption for couple days, but for P04, its my first time dosing, so not sure yet how much consumption I will get.

A buddy of mine also suggested to get a Food grade pure KN03, I guess I'll trash my stump remover to be safe.

Will this be a regular thing? Wont these levels go up naturally? (I'm guessing more feedings or something?) I dont want to add these to my regular big 3 dosing regime if feasible.

 

[Sherman]

I also dosing KNO3 to bring NO3 above 0

 

[Lasse]

Will this be a regular thing? Wont these levels go up naturally? (I'm guessing more feedings or something?) I dont want to add these to my regular big 3 dosing regime if feasible.

It depends on many factors. My system is designed with anaerobic breakdown of organic matter, hence there will be some denitrification in my sand bed in the start period (with start period in my case - i mean the first 2 - 4 years). I have a chaeto fuge too and also an oversized skimmer as gas exchanger - all of this indicate a steady demand of inorganic N (NH3/NH4 or NO3). I think that I must dose NO3 even in the long run. With PO4 I´m not really know. When I get my Reversed Remote Deep Sand Bed to work the way I want - I will get som PO4 leaking out from bacterial breakdown in the sand bed and can probably regulate this with my flow through it. But for the moment - I need to dose both NO3 (I have done that for 2 years) and PO4 (been dosing for 8 months) Around 8 months ago - my photosynthetic biomass was large enough to consume all free PO4 there was in my water column. After around 1 month the leak of PO4 from gravel and stones was not enough either (empty storage containers) and the LPS corals was effected. I start to dose PO4. The dosing is rather unstable - I take PO4 measurements every week and have to adjust the dosing rather often.

All aquarium is different - my system is designed in an uncommon way using principles and methods not common in reef keeping today.

In your case you have to test out how it works. One common advise is to rise the feeding. IMO - the imbalance you see is between input of nutrients (external food) + internal production of inorganic nutrients and output (export, building biomass and so on) will remain until the day you have achieved maximum photosynthetic biomass. The day you achieve this - you will probably have a steady state but you need to harvest corals on a regular base and keep on feeding.

I hope you understand what I´m trying to say - it is normally difficult to describe ecological principles and to do it in a language that´s not your native language makes it not much easier.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[sil40sx]

I also dosing KNO3 to bring NO3 above 0

How long you've been doing it?

 

[sil40sx]

....I hope you understand what I´m trying to say - it is normally difficult to describe ecological principles and to do it in a language that´s not your native language makes it not much easier.

Sincerely Lasse

I kinda get it, but I will try to read it again tomorrow, to be sure. Haha

So basically, I need to keep testing everyday for a few days to make sure I'm dosing the correct amount due to consumption. The maybe once a week after that. At the same time make small adjustments, like feeding more gradually and see if I get my levels up that way.

 

[Lasse]

So basically, I need to keep testing everyday for a few days to make sure I'm dosing the correct amount due to consumption. The maybe once a week after that. At the same time make small adjustments, like feeding more gradually and see if I get my levels up that way.

Yes - you nail it

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Sherman]

How long you've been doing it?

Since NO2 drop to zero for 2 months already

 

[sil40sx]

Yes - you nail it

Sincerely Lasse

Oh I see. That doesn’t sound too bad.

How about shutting down my ATS? Do you think it’s stripping down my nutrients too much? But I’m afraid if I shut it down, my algae will come back?

 

[sil40sx]

Since NO2 drop to zero for 2 months already

Oh I see. Did you see any obvious change on your corals? Like better colors or something?

 

[Lasse]

Oh I see. That doesn’t sound too bad.

How about shutting down my ATS? Do you think it’s stripping down my nutrients too much? But I’m afraid if I shut it down, my algae will come back?

Tricky question. I have a chaeto fuge. I decided not to shoot it down. IMO Fuge or ATS have more advantages than just nutrient uptake. I took the decision to start dosing instead of shout it down - its a part of my biological machinery. I know people that try to adjust flow and light period in order to balance it in but I chose to keep it as it was. However - I took away all no-biological methods of taking out nutrients - like GFO

Sincerely Lasse

 

[sil40sx]

I know right?! Especially that my ATS fix my algae problem. Ugh

I guess I’ll try dosing first, and see how it goes from there.

 

[Sherman]

Oh I see. Did you see any obvious change on your corals? Like better colors or something?

2 things I see reverse with KNO3 feeding.
1. The macro algae start glooming again
2. SPS become hairy and fluffy and color come back slowly

 

[sil40sx]

2 things I see reverse with KNO3 feeding.
1. The macro algae start glooming again
2. SPS become hairy and fluffy and color come back slowly

Ah ok. That’s good to know, thanks!

BTW, how long before you noticed the changes?

 

[sil40sx]

I was going to dose tonight, but when I checked my levels, my numbers are weird. My N03 is still the same, between 2 and 3, and my P04 went up to 0.03. Is this common? I checked twice.