Help picking a fish for nano reef

[MaxTremors]

I know :'( my opinion on firefish seems to be incredibly unpopular!

Thanks so much for the thought that went into your list, it's incredibly helpful! I have a few questions about some:

Would the valentini puffer not be too big for a tank of this size (20g)? I was looking into them before and they seem awesome. Is there any ability to get them to eat prepared foods or somehow feed them when I'm away or would I need a tank sitter?

Six-line wrasse seem really cool also - though I do have concerns about the tank being too small for them again. I'd love a wrasse that would be happy and healthy in my 20g, but I've been told even fairy or possum wrasse would find the tank too small.

Scooter Dragonet/Ruby Red Dragonet - are these actually different to a mandarin? I was always under the assumption it was essentially the same fish but in a different colour. If they're more likely to be able to be maintained from an auto feeder while I'm away and take to prepared foods, this could be a winner also!

Thanks so much again!

The canthigaster puffer are somewhat reef safe, IME they’ll nip at microfauna on the live rock and at smaller members of your CuC, and they may even occasionally nip at corals, but they’re not as bad as something like a Pygmy angel in terms of nipping at coral. So long as you have a lot of rockwork, a 20g is big enough to keep one.

Scooter dragonets, Ruby reds, and mandarins are all dragonets, but they have more differences than just color. The regular brown scooter and the red color morph of the scooter (which is not the same as the ruby red) are the most hardy, they’ll eat pellets sometimes but are more inclined to eat frozen foods like brine or mysis shrimp.

I would caution against getting a puffer or a sixline AND a dragonet, they’ll both compete for copepods and both are faster and in a 20g will leave a dragonet without a lot of natural prey.

 

[tranceFusion]

Personally I would not put additional fish in with a pair of clowns in a 20g unless it is something very small like a neon goby and better yet if it is something that sticks to the sand.

But all the inverts you mentioned seemed like good options… Pom Pom crab, cleaner shrimp, anemone crab.

 

[Intense37754]

No puffer, angel dartfish should go in a 20g aio. Unless a mandarin eats mysis then pod population would never support
With your pair of clowns, a clown goby, war paint goby, a possum wrasse would work, scooter blenny, your goby shrimp pair

 

[Lyss]

I have a Max Nano, and I would say most of the options here are not right for such a small tank. You have to keep in mind that the display is 16 gallons, with the sump making up the remaining 4g.

I have 2 clowns and a Tailspot Blenny. I would like to add a pink streaked wrasse, which should be fine, but I'm noticing some territorial behavior over the rocks from my blenny and am starting to feel like the clowns and blenny are it. I wouldn't advise a dragonet or a puffer in such a small tank.

 

[Latte]

Fairy wrasse gets too big, but 6 line, possum, or pink streak would be fine.
Firefish are hit or miss, some are super active, others aren’t. My first one would greet me at the front of the tank. When my current one was in qt, I never saw it. In the dt it spends most of the time out.
Royal grammas are beautiful and very active once settled in.
I have an aurora goby and tiger pistol, very nice additions. They have not paired in the 4 months they’ve been together though. The pistol isn’t too destructive.
Puffer will eat small inverts and may nip at coral. A aptasia eating filefish or white spotted filefish is a cousin to puffers and may have similar behaviors, and does better in that size tank. Less risk to coral and safer for inverts.
Pygmy hawk and clown gobies are more cryptic/less active, but cool fish.
Cardinals don’t do much, but look nice while they are doing it lol

The filefish is an inspired suggestion, I'll definitely do a bit more research into that - could definitely be a good option, thanks for your help!

Just FYI a pod bloom is a normal part of a tank maturing. When the tank stabilizes the pods do as well and their numbers generally decrease.

A possum wrasse is fine. However you said no shy fish... this fish is generally shy.

I would never rely on an auto feeder for a mandarin/scooter. Basically any other fish can steal the food and cleaner shrimp especially. My blue mandarin I had years ago would simply give up and swim away when anything else started eating the food in front of it.


If you want to consider a more semi-aggressive robust setup then a Sixline and springer OR Starkii damsel will give you activity and colors. Blennies are also fun. Add the sixline last.

More peaceful set up would be something like the possum, firefish, royal gramma or tailspot and such.

Ahh ok - that's good to know with the pod bloom. I wouldn't be planning on adding a mandarin to the tank for at least another few months to make sure the pod population was consistent, but if I did plan on adding one I'd want to make sure I didn't add other fish that would eat pods or anything that was otherwise incompatible with him.

Would it make sense to target feed the mandarin with frozen and pellets while I'm here, and then overstock the tank with pods (with a couple bottles) just before going away for a week or longer? This would likely be 3-4 times a year for 1-3 weeks. That sounds to me like a plan that would work in theory at least.

Would a couple feedings of prepared foods daily be enough for the mandarin? I've heard conflicting things on this with some saying they absolutely require to be constantly feeding to survive vs others saying if they get a one or two big meals a day that's also enough. I saw a video of two very happy and fat gobies in a pretty small tank (~50G) where the poster said he just feeds them bloodworms once or twice a day and they love it.

Also, my clowns seem to be only interested in food at the top of the water column, as soon as it falls they instantly lose interest. Perhaps if I added a mix of some sinking pellets and some floating pellets into the auto feeder (assuming I could train the mandarin to take the sinking pellets) he could also do well on those while the clowns are distracted at the top.

If the redline shrimp would prevent an otherwise good plan - I'd be open to avoiding one for the sake of being able to keep a mandarin or other dragonet (a mandarin or puffer are definitely the two top fish I would love to keep).

 

[Latte]

The canthigaster puffer are somewhat reef safe, IME they’ll nip at microfauna on the live rock and at smaller members of your CuC, and they may even occasionally nip at corals, but they’re not as bad as something like a Pygmy angel in terms of nipping at coral. So long as you have a lot of rockwork, a 20g is big enough to keep one.

Scooter dragonets, Ruby reds, and mandarins are all dragonets, but they have more differences than just color. The regular brown scooter and the red color morph of the scooter (which is not the same as the ruby red) are the most hardy, they’ll eat pellets sometimes but are more inclined to eat frozen foods like brine or mysis shrimp.

I would caution against getting a puffer or a sixline AND a dragonet, they’ll both compete for copepods and both are faster and in a 20g will leave a dragonet without a lot of natural prey.

Thanks for the extra info, those are some interesting suggestions for sure and some really useful info!

I definitely wouldn't be adding anything that significantly eats pods with a dragonet, even if the dragonet ate prepared food, just to minimise any issues (not to mention I probably only have room to add one or two more fish to this tank anyways).

I have a Max Nano, and I would say most of the options here are not right for such a small tank. You have to keep in mind that the display is 16 gallons, with the sump making up the remaining 4g.

I have 2 clowns and a Tailspot Blenny. I would like to add a pink streaked wrasse, which should be fine, but I'm noticing some territorial behavior over the rocks from my blenny and am starting to feel like the clowns and blenny are it. I wouldn't advise a dragonet or a puffer in such a small tank.

That's a useful comment, thank you. I didn't realise the 20g volume included the back section of the tank as well - I thought that was separate (seems like a very silly thing to not know). I am really in love with the tank and how mine is progressing, despite encountering some small issues starting off!

I'm also very open to upgrading the tank in the future, I currently live in an apartment in a highrise in my city, so a bigger tank isn't feasible just yet and I believe I made a good decision for tank size for me. But, I am open to spending more money on a tank upgrade probably 2 or 3 years from now when my situation will change and I'll likely be living in a house in a different city.

Overall, I'm trying to look as far ahead into the future and plan as much as possible with regards to stocking this tank to minimise any issues going forward.

 

[Lyss]

Thanks for the extra info, those are some interesting suggestions for sure and some really useful info!

I definitely wouldn't be adding anything that significantly eats pods with a dragonet, even if the dragonet ate prepared food, just to minimise any issues (not to mention I probably only have room to add one or two more fish to this tank anyways).



That's a useful comment, thank you. I didn't realise the 20g volume included the back section of the tank as well - I thought that was separate (seems like a very silly thing to not know). I am really in love with the tank and how mine is progressing, despite encountering some small issues starting off!

I'm also very open to upgrading the tank in the future, I currently live in an apartment in a highrise in my city, so a bigger tank isn't feasible just yet and I believe I made a good decision for tank size for me. But, I am open to spending more money on a tank upgrade probably 2 or 3 years from now when my situation will change and I'll likely be living in a house in a different city.

Overall, I'm trying to look as far ahead into the future and plan as much as possible with regards to stocking this tank to minimise any issues going forward.

Yes, I didn't realize the 20g includes the sump at first too, but the full volume is 20. Once you have it and start adding stuff to it, at some point it does feel kind of small. In my situation if I don't end up adding the pink-streaked now I will live with the clowns and blenny (and quite a variety of inverts) until I'm ready to upgrade to a bit of a larger tank, and then introduce more fish.

For a puffer, they are definitely messy eaters that require hands-on maintenance b/c it's tough to keep CUC w/them. They also need a diet to help keep their beak filed down, and often require a trim even then -- you can't just auto-feed them frozen food. I love puffers, there's just a fair amount to know about them before jumping in on a fish like that.

Edit: Actually, the Max Nano display is 16.5 gallons, with the remaining 3.5 in the back sump compartment.

 

[Latte]

Yes, I didn't realize the 20g includes the sump at first too, but the full volume is 20. Once you have it and start adding stuff to it, at some point it does feel kind of small. In my situation if I don't end up adding the pink-streaked now I will live with the clowns and blenny (and quite a variety of inverts) until I'm ready to upgrade to a bit of a larger tank, and then introduce more fish.

For a puffer, they are definitely messy eaters that require hands-on maintenance b/c it's tough to keep CUC w/them. They also need a diet to help keep their beak filed down, and often require a trim even then -- you can't just auto-feed them frozen food. I love puffers, there's just a fair amount to know about them before jumping in on a fish like that.

Edit: Actually, the Max Nano display is 16.5 gallons, with the remaining 3.5 in the back sump compartment.

Yup I've heard that about feeding things on shell to trim their beaks, though I haven't heard that you need to manually trim them even when feeding a correct diet sometimes? How do you even manage that?

I have also heard they were messy eaters and that I would have to up my maintenance in response to that, though I didn't even consider the fact that it'd be even worse again because they would eat all of the snails. That's a recipe for algae if I've ever seen one haha.

 

[Tamberav]

The filefish is an inspired suggestion, I'll definitely do a bit more research into that - could definitely be a good option, thanks for your help!



Ahh ok - that's good to know with the pod bloom. I wouldn't be planning on adding a mandarin to the tank for at least another few months to make sure the pod population was consistent, but if I did plan on adding one I'd want to make sure I didn't add other fish that would eat pods or anything that was otherwise incompatible with him.

Would it make sense to target feed the mandarin with frozen and pellets while I'm here, and then overstock the tank with pods (with a couple bottles) just before going away for a week or longer? This would likely be 3-4 times a year for 1-3 weeks. That sounds to me like a plan that would work in theory at least.

Would a couple feedings of prepared foods daily be enough for the mandarin? I've heard conflicting things on this with some saying they absolutely require to be constantly feeding to survive vs others saying if they get a one or two big meals a day that's also enough. I saw a video of two very happy and fat gobies in a pretty small tank (~50G) where the poster said he just feeds them bloodworms once or twice a day and they love it.

Also, my clowns seem to be only interested in food at the top of the water column, as soon as it falls they instantly lose interest. Perhaps if I added a mix of some sinking pellets and some floating pellets into the auto feeder (assuming I could train the mandarin to take the sinking pellets) he could also do well on those while the clowns are distracted at the top.

If the redline shrimp would prevent an otherwise good plan - I'd be open to avoiding one for the sake of being able to keep a mandarin or other dragonet (a mandarin or puffer are definitely the two top fish I would love to keep).

2-3 weeks is really pushing it even with seeding the tank. Definitely feed a few times a day. Making a baby brine shrimp feeder is also a good idea.

I kept 6 dragonetts in a 20 or 30? hex years ago. I made it a species tank though. A macro dominant tank with another 20g fuge attached and lots of feedings for the mandys and even more importantly, the pods. My oldest was with me 5 years before I moved and tore it all down.

As much as I would love to keep them again, I found it a huge amount of work to keep them in spawning condition which interferes with having a life. It is a lot of dedication for a fish that should live 10-15 years.

 

[Double monti 61]

The neon goby is a good choice.

 

[Sharkbait19]

Yup I've heard that about feeding things on shell to trim their beaks, though I haven't heard that you need to manually trim them even when feeding a correct diet sometimes? How do you even manage that?

I have also heard they were messy eaters and that I would have to up my maintenance in response to that, though I didn't even consider the fact that it'd be even worse again because they would eat all of the snails. That's a recipe for algae if I've ever seen one haha.

Some puffer beaks grow faster than others. Most can be trimmed by a steady supply of hard shelled foods, but some, like the freshwater Amazon puffer, colomesus asselus, has a beak that grows too fast for provided foods to be enough. Inevitably these guys need trimming. From there, it involves sedating the puffer (clove oil is often used, but ms-222 is best) and trimming the teeth with a file or cuticle clippers. I haven’t heard of Valentini needing this, but it can certainly be necessary if proper diet is not provided.
If you really like puffers, you could always set up a separate 5 gallon tank for the freshwater dwarf puffer, carinotetradon travancoricus, which does not have a beak which requires trimming.
One of my Amazon puffers:

Dwarf puffer (google):

 

[Tchung23]

Thanks, he definitely sounds like a great addition. Very beautiful colours!


Interesting, I've heard such mixed things about firefish. I guess some just hide in a cave all day and others never do.

Yes. I think it is very tank/fish dependant. I hear they like to jump but I've never seen mine come close to the surface to jump.

Thanks, he definitely sounds like a great addition. Very beautiful colours!


Interesting, I've heard such mixed things about firefish. I guess some just hide in a cave all day and others never do.

Yes. I think it’s very fish/tank dependant. Mine has never come close to the surface to jump and mine only hides at night when it’s sleeping.

 

[SlugSnorter]

Hi all, I'm looking for some help picking fish for my 20g red sea max nano (AIO).

At the moment I've got a few corals and a pair of small juvenille ocellaris clownfish. The tank is absolutely swarming with copepods all over the glass, despite only being a few months old.

I'm looking for help with planning further stocking. Specifically, I'm hoping to get a 'centrepiece' fish and am having trouble choosing.

Here's what I'd value in this fish:
- Colourful
- unique looking
- active throughout the day and evening
- not too shy so that I would rarely see it
- peaceful and able to get along with other fish
- possible for me to feed with an auto feeder, so that if I go away for a few days or a couple weeks it won't starve or suffer.
- having a it of a personality would be a huge pro

Additionally, I'm also hoping to add some other lifestock to the tank, so would be good to know of there would be any issues with:
- shrimp and goby pair
- red line cleaner shrimp
- pom poms crab
- porcelain crab

I've already considered:

Mandarin dragonete:
I love this fish and would love something similar though I have heard even the captive ones are very hard to keep in nanos as they will destroy the pod population and their reliance on frozen or pellet foods would likely lead to nutrient issues. I also worry that they'd not be able to compete with the clowns for food from the autofeeder.

Fairy/Possum wrasse:
Again I love this fish though I've been advised that my tank would be too small for the wrasse to be happy :'(

Puffers:
These seem awesome to keep however I don't think there are any that would be small enough for my tank and the dietary requirements would make it hard - plus it would likely harrass or kill the rest of the livestock.


Thanks so much for taking the time to read, I'm really looking forward to some insight!

firefish (IMO nemateleotris magnifica is best firefish), perfect fit

 

[SlugSnorter]

Thanks for the suggestions but I think the firefish is too timid for what I'm looking for (I'm also not a big fan of them tbh). I've already got a pair of clowns, and I'm not a fan of banghai from what I've heard about pickyness/aggression + their looks personally.

Sorry for nitpicking your suggestions, perhaps I'm chasing the impossible trying to find a fish that meets my requirements.

I'm very excited to get my shrimp/goby pair! How is your tiger shrimp going? I've heard they can get big/aggressive so I think for a tank my size I'll try and go with a candy

in a more passive tank like yours firefish are really active and dart around, id reccomend them heavily.

Also, i forgot to mention Sharknose gobies, they have funny little antics, are friendly and will clean your fish. go with captive bred, as captive bred will almost always eat prepared food.

 

[Tchung23]

How about a Jawfish? I have them and they are really cool

 

[SlugSnorter]

How about a Jawfish? I have them and they are really cool

idk if it would get along with the goby too well, they may choose the burrow in similar spots

 

[Dave1993]

Candy basslet how much more of a show piece fish could you want for a nano would be most peoples big tanks show piece fish

 

[davidcalgary29]

The filefish is an inspired suggestion, I'll definitely do a bit more research into that - could definitely be a good option, thanks for your help!

I certainly agree if it's a dwarf whitespotted filefish, which are wonderful fish that probably won't snack on your corals. Avoid matted filefish, which can (and do, in my case) eat my coral. My matted filefish is also very active and steals food from other fish.

I would not get a pygmy geometric hawkfish. They're lovely, but very timid.

 

[Sharkbait19]

Candy basslet how much more of a show piece fish could you want for a nano would be most peoples big tanks show piece fish

Expensive…but sooooo good looking!

 

[i cant think]

In my nano (20g total volume), I have 6 fish - 2 are temporary. While yes people tend to disagree with the idea of 6 fish in a 20g tank, I find mine has been doing quite well with 6. I do a WC once a week so my nutrient export is rather good. I have:
- Lineatus blenny
- Yasha goby
- Black Clown Goby
- Blue star leopard wrasse
- Naoko fairy wrasse
- Pink streaked wrasse
Everyone gets along just fine but I have been wanting to keep 6 fish total long term (The BLSW and Naoko fairy won’t be long term) I’ve been debating on a Long fin clownfish and a jawfish, I definitely want a jawfish again due to the personality! I’d love a fire fish but for that price on a helfrichi I’d rather get two more tilefish (Purple & a second Flashing) in my 90g tank.