Help Prevent Involuntary SPS Slaughter

[MrNYCeGuy]

Welcome to my tank regression thread!



Over the past few weeks, I have watched in horror as my tank has begun to slowly descend into chaos. My tank was once a happy place with a few SPS frags growing slowly and steadily over time. Things started to degrade three weeks after I added a small 1 gallon hang on the back refugium to my tank. I filled it with both Cheto and Caulerpa and watched both flourish in my refugium, almost doubling in size over a two week period. During the initial three weeks, my skimmer cup was almost never filled I thought this refugium thing really works wonders. Happy times!

All was great until two weeks ago I began to see some polyps retreating from a few corals and STN set in a few days later. This seemed like a logical time to test my nutrient levels…sure enough, 50 ppm nitrates!!! Quickly I started looking for the suspect and it seems as though the Caulerpa and Cheto had been killing each other off as I found brown dead particles of each at the top of the refugium. Also compounding the issue was the fact that my skimmer had not been running properly this whole time.

Measures had to be taken so I removed the Caulerpa as I have read (and it might not be true) that it can release some toxins when it’s in a small competing environment, but left the Cheto. Also, I fixed my Benedict Arnold version skimmer (I have my eye on it now) to its proper working order, added activated carbon (I ran no carbon previously), and did 2 X 50% water changes over the course of two days. I also did an ICP test after the water changes and it only came back elevated for Molybdenum (didn’t realize geology was a prerequisite for this hobby). Checked my magnates in the tank for signs of corrosion and didn’t really find any.

It has been a week since the water changes, skimmer fix, and activated carbon addition and half of my SPS corals are still STNing or showing little signs of PE, while half have started to recover. My question here is have I taken the necessary steps to avoid a full system crash and I should just leave everything alone for now or could there be something else causing the further STN?



Equipment



29 bio cube

UFO Grow Light 150 W on refugium

1 gallon hang on the back refugium

18” SBReef Lights LED, turned down to 3% whites and 8% blues…super powerful light…yea have killed some stuff with it in the past…my bad

2 X 425 gph Koralia pumps

1 X Jebao wavemaker

Aquamaxx WS1 Skimmer- rated for 65 gallons…and is a turncoat at times



Water Parameters

Nitrates: 5 ppm

Water Condition: Very clear

ICP Test Results:

 

[MrNYCeGuy]

#reefsquad

 

[rkpetersen]

When a fuge crashes, it not only releases all the nitrate and phosphate that the algae has absorbed over time, but also a variety of organic molecules as well as any metals that the algae took up as it grew. So it's not that surprising that some critters will respond negatively.

So it's important to keep a close eye on how your fuge algae is doing. If you start to see it dying, best course of action is to remove all of the algae, and start with fresh. Even though this is painful, it allows you to salvage the nutrient and mineral uptake up to that point.

Caulerpa isn't generally a good fuge algae. Chaeto can be finicky but when it's growing well it does a fantastic job. Some people like ulva and it will work, but I've seen it spread to surfaces in the DT, so I personally can't recommend it. You can try some of the red algaes, but they don't generally grow as well or as fast as chaeto.

Also, to keep your chaeto from dying off, it's a good idea to add small amount of trace elements and iron on a regular basis, optimally with a doser. This is basically what's done with the Triton method.

I and others don't trust ICPOES numbers from that company. They often show the alleged presence of various metals that other services like ATI and Triton report as undetectable.

 

[sixty_reefer]

What where you KH levels wend this happened and now?

 

[MrNYCeGuy]

What where you KH levels wend this happened and now?

Thankfully KH has always remained between 8.3 - 8.9 so there was no significant spike or drop in KH. I typically aim for 8.6 KH. Very happy that has not changed.

 

[JoeD_]

I honestly think skimmers and in many cases a fuge is a waste of time in a nano tank. It's too easy to control nutrients with regular water changes. Plus , Ive never seen a nano skimmer actually skim very well. I really think the technology of removing nutrients got too good. I see more forum posts about corals suffering too much nutrient exporting. I honestly believe K.I.S.S. is the best approach. Nano? Water changes.

 

[MrNYCeGuy]

As you can see it's a very mixed bag here. The LPS and zoas are out and super happy. You can see my slimer acro is just getting crushed and turning white and some STN on a few of the other piece I have. Visuals usually help.

 

[MrNYCeGuy]

Some additional unhappy customers...

 

[MrNYCeGuy]

Last shot of my most unhappy customer

 

[sixty_reefer]

Looking by the pics your system looks only a few weeks old, wend did you set it up?

 

[MrNYCeGuy]

I’ve had the tank up and running for about 5 months at this point.

 

[rkpetersen]

Plus , Ive never seen a nano skimmer actually skim very well.

Agree for the most part, but this one is fantastic.
Works exactly like a full size skimmer, but fits in the sump section of an IM Fusion 20.
Reasonably quiet, too.

K1-Nano Protein Skimmer

The IceCap K1 Nano is a remarkably compact skimmer that offers a new level of refined filtration. All aspects of the skimmer were implemented to surpass many challenges other skimmer on the market miss out on. Included magnet mount allows for easy placement on surfaced up to 1/2" thick. It is...

www.marinedepot.com

 

[Hermie]

I honestly think skimmers and in many cases a fuge is a waste of time in a nano tank. It's too easy to control nutrients with regular water changes. Plus , Ive never seen a nano skimmer actually skim very well. I really think the technology of removing nutrients got too good. I see more forum posts about corals suffering too much nutrient exporting. I honestly believe K.I.S.S. is the best approach. Nano? Water changes.

Thing is that a skimmer will be working, theorhetically, 24/7 so it's always "cleaning" your water, whereas with only water changes one is allowing nutrients to build up in the water column for several days before they are removed, so it's a less stable environment.

 

[Hemmdog]

I think it’s pests, all of it.

the acros look stripped like they do from aefw.

This euphyllia has visible flatworms on it.

Did you dip your corals before introducing them to your system?

 

[sixty_reefer]

I’ve had the tank up and running for about 5 months at this point.

Wore your nitrates always at 50 before the STN or did that number jumped in a couple of days?

 

[MrNYCeGuy]

I think it’s pests, all of it.

the acros look stripped like they do from aefw.

This euphyllia has visible flatworms on it.

Did you dip your corals before introducing them to your system?

I do dip my corals, and purchase them from two trusted sources. Like you, one of my first instincts was to see if it was a pest, but I haven't found one yet. While in the picture it does look like it could be a flatworm, it's just my terrible picture-taking skills. My hammer coral has a few bald spots on it where the skin almost looks translucent, it's been that way since I got it. I can retake pictures of the hammer coral to give you another angle. Also, the STN is happening at the base of many of the corals and not sporadically throughout the corals. When I've seen bad infestations I have seen the worms on the corals and I have yet to spot one. At this point, I'd kind of wish it was a flatworm problem, it would make it much easier to treat.

 

[MrNYCeGuy]

Wore your nitrates always at 50 before the STN or did that number jumped in a couple of days?

My nitrates were probably closer to about 10 at that point. I think it was the fact that my skimmer stopped working properly and the refugium did a good job of keeping the nitrates at bay because my macro algaes were doubling in size every week. Honestly once my refugium was up I didn't feel the need to test for nitrates...how wrong I was!

 

[MrNYCeGuy]

Agree for the most part, but this one is fantastic.
Works exactly like a full size skimmer, but fits in the sump section of an IM Fusion 20.
Reasonably quiet, too.

K1-Nano Protein Skimmer

The IceCap K1 Nano is a remarkably compact skimmer that offers a new level of refined filtration. All aspects of the skimmer were implemented to surpass many challenges other skimmer on the market miss out on. Included magnet mount allows for easy placement on surfaced up to 1/2" thick. It is...

www.marinedepot.com

Agreed. This thing is very oversized for the tank and...when working properly...can be very effective.

 

[Timfish]

ALgae can cause serious problems with corals. The Dissolved Combined Neutral Surgars, DCNS, released by algae promotes pathogenic microbes that may already exist in a corals holobiont. A good introduction is Forest Rohwer's "COral Reefs in the Microbial Seas". Here's some links:

Role of elevated organic carbon levels and microbial activity in coral mortality

http://www.int-res.com/articles/meps2006/314/m314p119.pdf

Indirect effects of algae on coral: algae‐mediated, microbe‐induced coral mortality

Error - Cookies Turned Off

onlinelibrary.wiley.com

Coral and macroalgal exudates vary in neutral sugar composition and differentially enrich reef bacterioplankton lineages

Coral and macroalgal exudates vary in neutral sugar composition and differentially enrich reef bacterioplankton lineages - PubMed

Increasing algal cover on tropical reefs worldwide may be maintained through feedbacks whereby algae outcompete coral by altering microbial activity. We hypothesized that algae and coral release compositionally distinct exudates that differentially alter bacterioplankton growth and community...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Global microbialization of coral reefs

Global microbialization of coral reefs - Nature Microbiology

Analysis of 60 sites in three ocean basins suggests that overgrowth of fleshy algae on coral reefs supports higher microbial abundances dominated by copiotrophic, potentially pathogenic bacteria via the provision of dissolved inorganic carbon.

www.nature.com

 

[MrNYCeGuy]

ALgae can cause serious problems with corals. The Dissolved Combined Neutral Surgars, DCNS, released by algae promotes pathogenic microbes that may already exist in a corals holobiont. A good introduction is Forest Rohwer's "COral Reefs in the Microbial Seas". Here's some links:

Role of elevated organic carbon levels and microbial activity in coral mortality

http://www.int-res.com/articles/meps2006/314/m314p119.pdf

Indirect effects of algae on coral: algae‐mediated, microbe‐induced coral mortality

Error - Cookies Turned Off

onlinelibrary.wiley.com

Coral and macroalgal exudates vary in neutral sugar composition and differentially enrich reef bacterioplankton lineages

Coral and macroalgal exudates vary in neutral sugar composition and differentially enrich reef bacterioplankton lineages - PubMed

Increasing algal cover on tropical reefs worldwide may be maintained through feedbacks whereby algae outcompete coral by altering microbial activity. We hypothesized that algae and coral release compositionally distinct exudates that differentially alter bacterioplankton growth and community...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Global microbialization of coral reefs

Global microbialization of coral reefs - Nature Microbiology

Analysis of 60 sites in three ocean basins suggests that overgrowth of fleshy algae on coral reefs supports higher microbial abundances dominated by copiotrophic, potentially pathogenic bacteria via the provision of dissolved inorganic carbon.

www.nature.com

These are very interesting articles. It’s seems like the presence of algae in reef environments can outcompete corals for the necessary nutrients. In our display tanks where we can increase and decrease the presence of these elements, is the presence of algae in a refugium a net negative? Also, if that algae can be harvested and removed from the system, should we get the benefits of nutrient removal without the downside effects? Is there anything else that would cause algae to inhibit coral growth (ie. toxin release) other than the reduction of nutrients and elements? This would be great to understand.