Help~~ Royal Gramma in QT... no hope???

[Wonf]

Hi all,

Have a Royal Gramma and Midas Blenny that were purchased and put into QT 2 weeks ago. All was fine until yesterday, where the RG was not coming out of his hiding place and stopped eating.

Fish were both eating after 1 day, swimming out and about after 3 days in QT. No medication was added (I was away for a week after day 3 at a conference, wife was feeding fish everything seemed normal).

3 days ago, I measured a hint of ammonia (.25ish on the API test kit) and did a 60% water change.
During the first couple days, I did notice the RG open his mouth wide when the MB got close and did see the MB nudge the RG once or twice during feeding, but nothing that seemed like fatal bullying (I've had a dottyback terrorize a 6 line, lawnmower blenny terrorize a diamond goby so aware of bullying).

A couple days ago, noticed some of the RG's tail fin was torn... didn't look like fin rot or disease based so assumed it was the MB nipping at the RG.

I have a divider in the QT now, but saw the RG laying on its side earlier today and thought he was a goner. When I went in with a net to scoop him out, he swam away! I tried target feeding but he wont eat. I don't see any physical signs of disease (unless it's a weird case of velvet...).

Do you think he's a goner? If so, and if it's a disease, should I take him out sooner than later so the MB doesn't get infected? But if it is, prolly too late now...

help....

(sorry for the horrible pics... he's wedged in the corner under a PVC pipe so hard to get a close up... Notice the torn tail fin in one of the pics... wanted to show that there weren't clear signs of disease on body...)

 

[HotRocks]

More than likely it's an ammonia issue if you had a detectable amount. A bath in methalyne blue is highly recommended upon exposure to ammonia. It can reverse the negative affects almost immediately. Even a slight amount can cause enough Gill damage to be fatal.

I still say you shouldn't rule out bullying or a possible parasite. Given what you shared above I suspect ammonia.

 

[ihavecrabs]

I second @HotRocks but will add that I didn't see an airstone in your QT (although the pic may not have shown it)

Also what test kit are you using?

 

[Wonf]

I've got a HOB filter and a PH pointed towards the water surface, QT'd several fish like this over the past year or so with no issues...

Using API's test kit.

 

[code4]

If you do not have copper in that tank you could use prime or amquel to neutralize any ammonia.

Shelley

 

[Wonf]

I have some Seachem Safe (the dry version of Prime) on hand but I've always been hesitant to use it... Not really knowing how long it lasts in the tank water, when is it safe to add other medications, is it even safe with other medications, etc...

 

[code4]

I have not ever used that type. You might consider getting a seachem ammonia alert badge. They are very useful in letting you know if ammonia is rising in the tank. Once you use anything to change the ammonia in your tank to ammonium you cannot use any form of copper while it is in the tank. It does not remove the ammonia, just changes its form to a less harmful form. This is where the badge comes in handy. It only registers the toxic form of ammonia. You can use prime and amquel every 24 hours. So I would think Seachem Safe would be the same. I have used prime and amquel without issues.

Shelley

 

[Wonf]

I know Seachem Prime/Safe is a no-no with copper, but finding mixed reviews about it with PraziPro. Anyone have any experience combing the two?

 

[HotRocks]

I know people who have used prazipro during copper. Bacterial bloom is likely. But sometimes you have to do it.

A better option we are finding out, is to use general cure with copper, it's a powder form of praziquantel and metronidazole (same med as metroplex). Dosage of praziquantel is slightly less than prazipro contains. Usually will still do the trick in elimination of external worms/flukes. Bacterial bloom is still a possibility.

 

[Wonf]

Oops, sorry. Meant using PraziPro with Prime/Safe.

 

[code4]

What my main concern would be if they were my pets is the ammonia. And worry about any other problems if/when they come up during quarantine.

Shelley

 

[Wonf]

I completely agree. I've been checking Ammonia daily since it was detected and W/C done. It's been 0 or very close to 0 since... Seachem Prime/Safe is really a last resort option for me... if a W/C works, that's what I prefer.

Anyone have experience with Seachem Prime/Safe and PraziPro together?

 

[HotRocks]

Oops, sorry. Meant using PraziPro with Prime/Safe.

Honestly if you have a well established biofilter you should not need prime. It's good to have on hand in case of an emergency situation.

I definitely push the limits as far as how many fish I put in my 40b QT at once, thanks @4FordFamily ! Ammonia is something I have never had an issue with.

 

[Wonf]

I concur and completely agree... which is why I try to stay away from using the Seachem Safe I have (always have a sponge and bioballs in my sump ready to use for my QT. Not ALL the time for bioballs, but put them in a couple weeks before I know I'm going to have to setup my QT).

Just wondering if an emergency comes up, would be nice to know if I could add Seachem Prime or Safe to a QT that I already have PraziPro in.

 

[HotRocks]

I concur and completely agree... which is why I try to stay away from using the Seachem Safe I have (always have a sponge and bioballs in my sump ready to use for my QT. Not ALL the time for bioballs, but put them in a couple weeks before I know I'm going to have to setup my QT).

Just wondering if an emergency comes up, would be nice to know if I could add Seachem Prime or Safe to a QT that I already have PraziPro in.

@Humblefish @4FordFamily @Big G @melypr1985 ???

 

[Humblefish]

Just wondering if an emergency comes up, would be nice to know if I could add Seachem Prime or Safe to a QT that I already have PraziPro in.

I'm not really familiar with Seachem Safe; but mixing Prime + Prazipro can lead to a QT full of dead fish. Doesn't happen every time, but there are many anecdotal experiences of it happening.

 

[4FordFamily]

I'm not really familiar with Seachem Safe; but mixing Prime + Prazipro can lead to a QT full of dead fish. Doesn't happen every time, but there are many anecdotal experiences of it happening.

Agree I’d avoid all ammonia detoxifying product use in conjunction with any fish meds.

 

[Wonf]

wow, well noted.

Thanks for the info guys!