HELP RTN

[Amoo]

Right; no argument there.

All I'm saying is if you ignore the air bubble and start with the plunger at 1ml, there's also 1ml of fluid in the whole syringe + tip.
If you use all of it, you can simply refill the syringe again, and add that resultant usage to your prior 1ml.

I'm sorry, I completely understand the point you are making now. Like I said, I totally was not understanding what you were trying to say and explaining it differently cleared it up

 

[Amoo]

Also apparently Russ is a stalked as he quoted my post about where I work and was able to confirm it Are you @ReefMadScientist 's neighbor?

 

[Russ265]

What's so interesting?

The only time I've ever found it necessary to do that is on a Mag test, and that means you're over 1500 anyway. If you need to do this on an alk or ca test, you probably have bigger issues...

because you are just starting the plunger at 1 ml in the first place.

tbh it isnt difficult.
insert plunger fully discharged, and pull until the plunger stopper hits 1.0.

 

[Russ265]

Also apparently Russ is a stalked as he quoted my post about where I work and was able to confirm it Are you @ReefMadScientist 's neighbor?

omg. what a way to spin the context. and yes. i am your neighbor with the drone figuring how to take your walt disney.

ive been found out!

 

[evolved]

I'm sorry, I completely understand the point you are making now. Like I said, I totally was not understanding what you were trying to say and explaining it differently cleared it up

No apology needed; recognized we were not on the same page.

insert plunger fully discharged, and pull until the plunger stopper hits 1.0.

Easy peasy. No judging a meniscus line either.

 

[ReefMadScientist]

omg. what a way to spin the context. and yes. i am your neighbor with the drone figuring how to take your walt disney.

ive been found out!

Haha you guys are crazy!

 

[mcarroll]

[…]If you use all of it, you can simply refill the syringe again, and add that resultant usage to your prior 1ml.

Depends on your needs and if you are able to decide before running the test, but a better strategy may be to use half the amount of sample water, half the amount of reagents, and then multiply your results by two at the end.

"Better" meaning "more economical" since you use less of your least-abundant reagent. Precision is halved, but that is not usually a problem in the scenario we're talking about.

Salifert, for one, gives this method in their main kits I use.

 

[Laynrockers]

If you have a tank full of stony corals and are dosing less often than daily, then that is your problem. Alkalinity will be up and down like a basketball and Acro's hate that more than a lot of corals.

You may have to test once a day while you get the hang of the tank, but even after you can predict your test numbers, you'll have to keep dosing every day (or better).

Either dose manually every day (still my favorite) or get a dosing pump of some kind.

You will never satisfactorily stabilize the tank only dosing every week or two.

Also, 81-82°F is no problem. My tank ran constantly at 82.3°F for years. [emoji3]

Thanks, i am going to order a meter so i can see what kind of fluctuations my tank is having. The trouble i am having, as you can see from just this thread, or god forbit you research like i have been. There are SOOO many opinions. But very hard to accurately a correctly identify them,

For instance in this thread, everything from temp swings, alk swings, Vibrio ect has been brought up. BUT the hardest part is identifying what ecactly is the root cause. For that i need more info, like what kind of ALK swing would cause this?

Do not change parameters more than these values "as a reference"

CA 50 ppm per day
MG 100 ppm per day
ALK 1,4 dkh per day
K 10 ppm per day

I got one acro to STN, winter time where I live and one of my heaters just fail. So the other could not handle the entire system , temp drop few degrees and that's it.

I hope this help

Very well could. My tank is stable between 79-80 degrees from what i can see when im awake and i have not dosed more then your recomendation above. Thanks for the feedback.

like others have suggested, i suspect your alk dosing. be wary of alk above 8 if you truly have no nitrogen or phosphorus in the system.

temp swings will also give bad reactions depending on the severity.

Do you know what type of ALK swing would result in this?

I agree. The acan and lack of algea give it away for me. I have experienced the same thing. If you are running a low nutrient system or carbon dosing you need to keep the alk below 8.0. I would do a couple of things. First invest in a set of dosing pumps and dose smaller amounts. Second, you need to feed the tank more. I might also dose some amino acids like Acropower. For that size system you could get some more fish. Fish poo is the best coral food.

Thanks for the feedback, what do you mean by lack of algea? I have a sump full of chaeto, are you referring to the acan?. And as tested my ALK is below 8. Currently have roughly 25 fish total and feed them on auto feeder 3 times a day, and I hand feed 2 times a day. i am a big believer in feeding and natural waste for the corals.

I also dose Amino acids from Acropower and Elos.

Thanks

How much ozone are you using?

Its a small ozone machine, ill try and dig up the paperwork to see what the measurment is for running 3-5 hours a night. I just bumped it up from 3 and half hours to 5 hours a night.

Dude the pinkish stuff on ur acans is a bacterial infection if i was u i would litterally take every coral out and dip

Could you give more info? what type of infection? not sure what your looking at but could easliy be the lighting between the coral/frag tank leds, and flash.. please let me know what your referring too. Thanks

From my experience for stn and everything, all infection comes from alk burn first and takes its toll on sps once everythings corrected and when ur runnin a ulns you really really have to be carefull with dosing, its really from having everything in check for so long that when 1 thing goes out of wack it takes everything with it

Whats a UNLS?

 

[mcarroll]

As I said (or meant to ), a tank full of growing stony corals combined with a dosing regime that is less than once a day will cause alkalinity fluctuations sufficient to do what you're seeing. I've never had a pH meter, but I suspect the varying pH that's allowed when alkalinity dips is one player in stressing out your corals. There're probably other issues and stressors too though.

Alkalinity is meant to be stable and it is one of the least-present elements in seawater so it has by far the greatest "ability" to fluctuate and fluctuates more quickly, and has a much greater effect on overall water chemistry than (e.g.) calcium or magnesium level changes you're seeing.

As I said there are other variables so my example may not apply directly to you, but back in the day of halides when I'd accidentally let alkalinity dip under 2.5 meq/L, my corals would start losing color almost immediately, sometimes even losing a little tissue. I tested religiously back then and logged my results...and saw this trend repeat verbatim after various mistakes through those years.

Without further ado you should use a meter or drip test (like Salifert) and begin testing your alkalinity at least once a day, followed by any dosing adjustment needed.

Make the adjustments slowly, using drips no faster than 1-2 per second. (Volume of adjustment doesn't matter too much as long as the adjustment is made slowly like this....do not rush.)

3.0 meq/L is a good dosing target, especially when you are doing this by hand, as it gives you an added safety margin vs NSW levels.​

Maybe test again a little while after dosing to confirm the results, but aside from satisfying your curiosity that's not really necessary because you are logging your test results, right? The results will be apparent in the trend.

I mean it though....test and dose every day, log your test results, and you'll have fewer coral mysteries in your tank - I guarantee it.

P.S. Stop using ozone IMO....unless you're already well versed at interpreting ORP readings and have a quality meter AND understand how O3 works with (e.g.) copper and other things possibly found in your water.....I don't recommend it. If you're wrong or even just mistaken in your employment of it, this could also easily cause RTN all by itself. Ozone use may be a sensible protocol in (e.g.) a wholesale or retail environment, but should be utterly redundant in a healthy reef. It's conducive to a sterile environment, not a healthy one....important not to confuse the two as they are so often. Healthy != Sterile (Sorry.)

P.P.S. ULNS is a system of removing money from your wallet. It's also what some people call an aquarium system that is neither overstocked nor overfed.

 

[mcarroll]

It's worth adding that I wasn't housing any very sensitive corals back then and still had the reactions I described....I mostly had plating and digitata type Montis and Poecillopora birds nests.

More-sensitive corals like Acros and the LPS I've seen mentioned are even more likely to react poorly, and more severely, to the situation.

 

[Russ265]

ok here is my take on the situation after reading it all.

you stated you dosed weekly then had to dose daily.
you stated you have been having an influx of new corals the last few weeks.

this makes sense since you are making your system thirsty for alk, cal, mag. you NEED to keep these stable first. no more than 1 dkh change over 24 hours.

invest in a doser. you can get a dp-4 version 2 for $100.

keep nitrates above 2. 0 nitrates and a ton of coral is a lot of starvig zoox.
turn gfo off. no need to turn it back on unless you really are having rising phosphates.

stop water changes. just dont. you need nutrients and keep things stable. depending on amount of changes and your salt you can swing alk easily that way. (reef crystals comes to mind).

dear god. get some good kits. red sea pro, salifert, hanna alk or po4 kit.

hth

 

[Laynrockers]

I want to thank everyone for the feedback/ comments. To me this is what a forum, and community is all about.. So i wanted to update this since i started it.

Russ was nice enough to chat with me for a while. The conclusion was to verify the salifert test and get another test kit, in addition to this was to get my DKH/ALK into a safe range. I got a Red Sea test kit. I have since been dosing and brought my DKH form 6.4 up to 7. So i should be in the safe zone there. After speaking with some of the locals that are "Stick heads" they believe my issue was an ALK swing. Since i cannot prove it i can only guess for now. With the amount of water changes i am doing (30% per week) i didn't think my levels could get off, i was wrong. And keep in mind i use the best salt IMO Trop marine Active Bio..

I have also lost more SPS :mad: and my Wellso's are looking really bad.. I posted my Wellso pic in another thread so see if anyone knows what the white spots are ... no reply.

 

[Tahoe61]

Alkalinity is always the usual suspect.

Do you see any inverts such as Asterina star fish, Limpets.......

 

[Laynrockers]

Ok- i am still trying to figure this out.. I just got back from leaving the country for 8 days.. Lost another large nice Acan, a plate, and another acro... When i left i was able to dose and get my DKH to 7.1 and my Calcium to 420. When I returned the level reduced to 5.0 DKH and 380 Calcium.. This was a 9 day period of time..

I am getting ready to buy a dosing pump but just want to see what everyone elses experience is with this and dosing. Those who have heavy SPS tanks like mine are you seeing similar absorption as this?

thanks

 

[mcarroll]

I know I was long winded, but check out post #69 again.

You should expect this cycle to continue until enough corals die to fix your alkalinity problem "their way" (reducing demand) or you start dosing at least daily.

If you or someone can't dose manually every day while they feed the fish (a no brainer) then some kind of doser is called for.

 

[chefjpaul]

Ok- i am still trying to figure this out.. I just got back from leaving the country for 8 days.. Lost another large nice Acan, a plate, and another acro... When i left i was able to dose and get my DKH to 7.1 and my Calcium to 420. When I returned the level reduced to 5.0 DKH and 380 Calcium.. This was a 9 day period of time..

I am getting ready to buy a dosing pump but just want to see what everyone elses experience is with this and dosing. Those who have heavy SPS tanks like mine are you seeing similar absorption as this?

thanks

Ummm.
^what he said twice.

I am leaving for Australia for over two weeks and am totally confident my parameters will be stable. And tank will maintain itself for that time as I have set it up to do so.
Now will my guy feed the fish??????????

 

[Tahoe61]

I know I was long winded, but check out post #69 again.

You should expect this cycle to continue until enough corals die to fix your alkalinity problem "their way" (reducing demand) or you start dosing at least daily.

If you or someone can't dose manually every day while they feed the fish (a no brainer) then some kind of doser is called for.

Exactly, you need a dosing pump to keep the alk stable if you are unable to dose daily.

 

[Breakthecycle2]

Is Red Sea the test kits of choice for ALK, MAg, CA and so on?

 

[Laynrockers]

I wanted to update this thread in case somone else runs across it with the same issues. I have stabilized my ALK and Calcium and mainly the alkalinity seems to be the problem, in looking back i have always mixed reefs but never so many stoney corals and SPS. Even though i am doing large water changes the chemistry and demands of my tank require more then weekly water changes. I got a dosing pump and hope to never have this issue again.. thanks again to everyone for the help. Lost a lot a corals but we only learn the hard way right?