help solve my STN issue

surfn · Jan 19, 2008

J. Montgomery said:
So let me see if I'm following this:
- the first colonies affected have been in your tank for a long time, and haven't been recently remounted
- only acros are affected
- STN begins at the base and travels up

Have you dipped any of these colonies in TMPCC?

yup, first colonies affected have been in there a loooooong time. in fact, probably my 2 oldest sps in there. and have not been remounted, but have been moved around a little bit.

of the next 2, 1 is fairly new.....think i got it in sept/oct.

i dont have any TMPCC......as it spilled out after i moved. so i just used some lugols iodine and dropped up to 10 drops in 1/2 gallon of water for 10min. nothing came off.

TMPCC isn't much different from lugols...other than it being a good bit more dillute i'm pretty sure.

J. Montgomery · Jan 20, 2008

You've been using the same box of salt for 2+ yr? Are you kiddin' me, how big is this box?

If you really think its a water chemistry problem, I'd suggest buying a small box of salt and trying it before buying any obscure test kits (I have an Iron and Phosphate test kits if you'd like to try them). The salt would be cheaper than the kit. From what I've read, the different salts have various densities and grain size so that over time they can settle into different strata. So there is the small possibility that over time your salt has settled and you're no longer getting the anticipated ratio of ions in the salt mix.

Just a suggestion, trying to throw out some different ideas to see what sticks. My gut says some type of infection, but thats purely speculation.

surfn · Jan 20, 2008

J. Montgomery said:
You've been using the same box of salt for 2+ yr? Are you kiddin' me, how big is this box?

If you really think its a water chemistry problem, I'd suggest buying a small box of salt and trying it before buying any obscure test kits (I have an Iron and Phosphate test kits if you'd like to try them). The salt would be cheaper than the kit. From what I've read, the different salts have various densities and grain size so that over time they can settle into different strata. So there is the small possibility that over time your salt has settled and you're no longer getting the anticipated ratio of ions in the salt mix.

Just a suggestion, trying to throw out some different ideas to see what sticks. My gut says some type of infection, but thats purely speculation.

well, i bought 2 boxes of salt about 2 years ago, both were the 200g box. and i hardly ever did any water changes last year....hence the reason why i had lots of algae. i'm down to my last bag from the 2nd box right now, so i'll have to get new salt sometime in the next couple of months anyways. but the bags are all sealed...so it would be odd that they would go bad.

i have a salifert phosphate test kit.....doubt thats a problem really.

i guess i'll try to do about 1 water change a week for a while, see if that makes any difference.

maybe i'll go get some TMPCC too, and try that out.

surfn · Jan 20, 2008

J. Montgomery said:
My gut says some type of infection, but thats purely speculation.

what type of infections attack sps corals? i've never read of any such things that i'm aware of.

i'm positive its not some sort of predator (like AEFW's). i've seen people who have them and the pattern of decay doesn't match up at all with what AEFW do to acros.

J. Montgomery · Jan 20, 2008

surfn said:
what type of infections attack sps corals? i've never read of any such things that i'm aware of.

i'm positive its not some sort of predator (like AEFW's). i've seen people who have them and the pattern of decay doesn't match up at all with what AEFW do to acros.

I don't have anything specific in mind. I just figure that if its not water chemistry, and its not a predator, then its probably some unknown infection.

Weekly water changes are probably the best thing to try at this point. That'll help to keep the water composition constant and stable. I've always done the 10% weekly water change and I believe thats largely what gets me by. The only other thing I do regularly is run a bag (1 cup) of carbon in my skimmer output. I feed generously, don't use a sump, and my skimmer is a joke.

You might want to consider adding some sort of Vitamin supplement (I got some VitaChem if you want to borrow it) and altering your feedings somehow (adding some new foods), trying that Selcon stuff, etc . . . to make sure everythings getting enough nutrition.

surfn · Jan 20, 2008

J. Montgomery said:
I don't have anything specific in mind. I just figure that if its not water chemistry, and its not a predator, then its probably some unknown infection.

Weekly water changes are probably the best thing to try at this point. That'll help to keep the water composition constant and stable.

You might want to consider adding some sort of Vitamin supplement (I got some VitaChem if you want to borrow it) and altering your feedings somehow (adding some new foods), trying that Selcon stuff, etc . . . to make sure everythings getting enough nutrition.

i've got that Seachem Vitality (vitamin and amino acid supplement enhanced with vitamin C for marine fish). it was those sample bottles they were giving away at Atlantis. is that sorta the same thing?

who is VitaChem made by?

as far as feedings go. i feed every day, usually alternate something different. i have flakes, frozen mysis, frozen blood worms, and some sea veggies (nori). been meaning to pick up some more cyclopeze when i get the chance.

J. Montgomery · Jan 20, 2008

Seachem Vitalitiy is likely to be very similar to the VitaChem. I picked up VitaChem just b/c I found it in a local LFS.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4998

I occasionally feed Cyclopeeze and Oyster Eggs. I also use Spirulina flakes which are supposed to be really nutritous (its some type of Hippie-esque, Eastern, wonder algae that packed full of nutrients and vitamins).

surfn · Jan 20, 2008

i'm also going to lower my alkalinity a bit, as twon suggested.......this stuff Randy Holmes is researching on is very interesting.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1297225

and i was looking back at my records i've kept for the past 2 years, and since i moved here i did raise up my Alk to higher than what i've ever used before. in the past, i kept it around 8-9dkh, since i moved i've been keeping it b/w 9.5-10dkh.

i guess i raised it b/c so many people were talking about great growth rates with levels that high.

surfn · Jan 29, 2008

well, i treated most of my acros today. i just set up a 5g tank, put them all in there with a power head. and then dosed about half 1/3 of the bottle into the water, and let the acros sit 10-15min. nothing unusual came off, so again i'm certain i didn't have any sort of pest.

i'm also doing 10g water changes per week, this is about 16% total volume.

i'm still in the process of lowering my alk/calcium a bit, also going to lower the salinity a bit too.

1/29/08: Alk 9.1 dkh, Ca 415, Mg ???, NO3 0, Salinity 1.023

here is the updated casualty list so far:
-sarmentosa colony (gone)
-pink milli colony (hacked up...but frags look to be encrusting)
-green stag (still STN'ing)
-ORA tort (still STN'ing in a small spot on base)
-ORA purple pillow (small STN spot on base and in center of colony)
-ORA green birds nest (STN on the very bottom of the coral....but this may be flow related as the dead spots look to have been there for a while as they have algae on them).

the last thing i can think of is a possible drop in pH. and i neglected to mention that about the same time my sarmentosa bleached in early December, this is about the same time i put about 2 dozen Boston Aqua Farm plugs into the tank in preperation of a big frag swap coming up in mid-december. i'm now wondering if this may have messed my pH up, and caused my alk and mg to crash enough to disturb the sps.

when i got the plugs in the bags, they were still slightly wet.....so i'm wondering if they were not fully cured, and still somewhat acidic.

for now on, i'm storing all frag plugs in a bucket of water that i change every couple of weeks to help complete the curing process.....just to be on the safe side.

therefore, i'm gonna try to continue to water changes every week and get my pH tested. also will start doing kalk in the top off water, hopefully these measures will correct any pH problem (if there is a pH problem)

msman825 · Jan 29, 2008

wow Al, really sorry about all your loses, Did not know things were that bad. Hope you get everything back on track.

chadfarmer · Jan 29, 2008

i would say the alk was the problem, i have done that in the past

but the ph could have reached 12 with the frag plugs and extra phosphate

Pitcom · Jan 29, 2008

I dumped a whole bag of the boston plugs in my fuge to keep em wet and have not had any negative effects on my 65.

surfn · Jan 29, 2008

chadfarmer said:
i would say the alk was the problem, i have done that in the past

but the ph could have reached 12 with the frag plugs and extra phosphate

why would frag plugs elevate your pH? aren't they made out of agrecrete/concrete? i thought acid was a component of concrete mixes...thus would drop your pH below 7.

chadfarmer · Jan 29, 2008

i put 150 in a 30 gallon and test the water and the ph was 12

thats what i found

sdietz2469 · Jan 30, 2008

actually they say that alkalinity is released from the plugs..... as they use alkili in morter mix..... definately could have done the pH, but it usually raises your dkH also..... i have had this happen a few times, and it was an alk drop as my calcium reactor vapor locked.... anyways i fragged everything up, some in as small as 1/4" frags, some made it some didnt, but i placed them all over my tank, in different lighting and different flow..... usually if they do that it could be a # of things.... what do you use to supplement calcium? if you are using prestone driveway heat, or dow flakes, they have harmful trace in them, and can build up over time and become harmful... the water changes should correct that, but that is a possibility..... keep us posted

surfn · Mar 3, 2008

just wanted to update this thread.

about a month ago i did a bunch of 10g water changes (16%)...prob about 2 or 3 per week for 2 weeks. things seemed to have gotten better after doing that.

i do not have any more signs of STN, and the corals that had it have been healing (except for my pink milli).

here is an updated casualty list:
-sarmentosa (completely gone)
-pink milli (keep losing more...frags, i have 3 frags left...no clue what the deal is with this one)
-green stag (healing)
-ORA tort (healing)
-ORA purple pillow (HEALING!! yay!!)
-ORA green birds nest (healing...but this may be a flow prob as the colony is pretty large)

really kinda sucks i lost my 2 biggest colonies, which were both my oldest sps (almost 3 years)....they were some of the first sps i had ever gotten.

after doing all of these water changes, and watching the acros start to recover...i'm really starting to wonder if there was some sort of micro nutrient deficiency in my water. and am wondering if a 16% water change (10g) per month isn't enough to keep the micro nutrients up. maybe i should do this water change every 2 weeks....