Help tank is contaminated, fish dying

[NewGoby]

The column was in operation for two years with everybody fairly happy but cramped with two seahorses the dog face and the snowflake eel thus the reason to upsize to a bow front this is just a secondary tank in my kitchen for my wife to look at wow doing cooking and such it is anything but a primary however it is frustrating to constantly lose these fish I imagine the seahorses and the newly purchased Angler died from stress or shipping but the other established fish coming from The Reef and being put in dying immediately or within a few days is a mystery they were all floated for a few hours with lights off lights remained off for the rest of the day then they come on the next day is regularly scheduled

Empty the whole tank, take everything down, clean everything thoroughly, re-cycle again for 4-8 weeks with a dead shrimp or by adding a bit of food daily.
Bleach the rocks, dry the rocks, wash the rocks, dry the rocks again & maybe wash again & be 100% sure they're clean and that no bleach or ammonia remains.
Clean all of the equipment, and put the current livestock in a QT.

Once the cycle is finished start by re-introducing the fish, least aggressive & territorial fish first, most aggressive & territorial fish last one by one.
Wait atleast a week in between adding an extra fish & make sure to measure all water parameters in between the adding of new & additional fish to make sure all is well, and to allow for slow build up of beneficial bacteria.

 

[nritter69]

Aarrrggghhh, [emoji852] lol. I guess I should be happy it's not the main Reef Tank. But still uuugghhhfff that's alot. Thanks.

 

[Water Dog]

When you say floated for a few hours, was the bag still sealed or was the bag open to the air?

 

[nritter69]

Sealed

 

[MnFish1]

Sealed

How big is your other tank

 

[nritter69]

A waterbox 170 mixed reef, a 75 mixed reef, an a 40 freshwater breeder

 

[MnFish1]

Empty the whole tank, take everything down, clean everything thoroughly, re-cycle again for 4-8 weeks with a dead shrimp or by adding a bit of food daily.
Bleach the rocks, dry the rocks, wash the rocks, dry the rocks again & maybe wash again & be 100% sure they're clean and that no bleach or ammonia remains.
Clean all of the equipment, and put the current livestock in a QT.

Once the cycle is finished start by re-introducing the fish, least aggressive & territorial fish first, most aggressive & territorial fish last one by one.
Wait atleast a week in between adding an extra fish & make sure to measure all water parameters in between the adding of new & additional fish to make sure all is well, and to allow for slow build up of beneficial bacteria.

Curious. Can you give your rationale for this? As compared to just waiting with the current fish load using good carbon perhaps a poly filter? I think that’s what I would do. Either that remove the fish to a qt tank leave the current tank fallow. And then readd the fish back one by one. In a fowlr system I have never used the long cycle method rather add fritz turbo or another product that is similar and add the fish back

 

[NewGoby]

Curious. Can you give your rationale for this? As compared to just waiting with the current fish load using good carbon perhaps a poly filter? I think that’s what I would do. Either that remove the fish to a qt tank leave the current tank fallow. And then readd the fish back one by one. In a fowlr system I have never used the long cycle method rather add fritz turbo or another product that is similar and add the fish back

Sure, no problem.

I feel like that he has already lost so much, it'd be unfortunate yet unlikely to lose the current fish that have survived the experience thus far.
But it could be that they're just used to a 'lower standard' of water quality, and that the water quality is what killed new inhabitants.
He mentioned that he has multiple tanks, so rebooting just one smaller one shouldn't be an issue, although the most time consuming option, this would be the safest bet.

Neither am I a fan of using chemicals to shorten a cycle, I feel like haste is probably the worst mistake one could make in this hobby.
But if he really wanted to, he could reboot it in a day or two, by using seeded stone & water from his bigger tanks.

About letting the tank fall fallow.
Yes I'd agree that this would be the way to go, if we were sure it was an organism that killed the fish, but we're not, it's either something in the rocks, or something in the water column. By bleaching the rocks & rebooting the whole tank you'll elimate both of them. If it happens after another reboot, it's the rocks leeching a trace element into the water column.

What do you think of my above reasoning? @MnFish1

 

[MnFish1]

Sure, no problem.

I feel like that he has already lost so much, it'd be unfortunate yet unlikely to lose the current fish that have survived the experience thus far.
But it could be that they're just used to a 'lower standard' of water quality, and that the water quality is what killed new inhabitants.
He mentioned that he has multiple tanks, so rebooting just one smaller one shouldn't be an issue, although the most time consuming option, this would be the safest bet.

Neither am I a fan of using chemicals to shorten a cycle, I feel like haste is probably the worst mistake one could make in this hobby.
But if he really wanted to, he could reboot it in a day or two, by using seeded stone & water from his bigger tanks.

About letting the tank fall fallow.
Yes I'd agree that this would be the way to go, if we were sure it was an organism that killed the fish, but we're not, it's either something in the rocks, or something in the water column. By bleaching the rocks & rebooting the whole tank you'll elimate both of them. If it happens after another reboot, it's the rocks leeching a trace element into the water column.

What do you think of my above reasoning? @MnFish1

Hey yeah I agree. If it were me I would )if I thought it was a toxin) just ditch the rock and buy new. Every toxin isn’t eliminated by bleach and it would be terrible to go through all that and then have to repeat if.

As to the bacteria it definitely works. ESP for a fowlr tank imho. There is a great thread on it bacteria in a bottle myth or fact where a guy is actually hält doing experiments with the different brands.

My bet is velvet that is causing the problem. And the fish that are living are immune. But you’re absolutely correct in everything you say.

If it were me I would probably greatly increase chemical filtration leave the current fish there and see what happens. But there is sure no right or wrong answer except not adding anything more. Either way i wouldn’t add anything for weeks. And then a hardy fish from a lfs

 

[NewGoby]

Hey yeah I agree. If it were me I would )if I thought it was a toxin) just ditch the rock and buy new. Every toxin isn’t eliminated by bleach and it would be terrible to go through all that and then have to repeat if.

As to the bacteria it definitely works. ESP for a fowlr tank imho. There is a great thread on it bacteria in a bottle myth or fact where a guy is actually hält doing experiments with the different brands.

My bet is velvet that is causing the problem. And the fish that are living are immune. But you’re absolutely correct in everything you say.

If it were me I would probably greatly increase chemical filtration leave the current fish there and see what happens. But there is sure no right or wrong answer except not adding anything more. Either way i wouldn’t add anything for weeks. And then a hardy fish from a lfs

Unfortunately we can only speculate about it being velvet, but it could very well be. Let's hope that whatever @nritter69 has decided to do, will fix the issue.

 

[nritter69]

Update, 1-15-2019, so for all who may be interested or who posted info an ideas...... the culprit was........ drum role...... stray voltage from combined heater 11v, skimmer 6v , and circulator 14v . For a total of 31vac in tank. Dont ask me why two of the fish have survived. They must b part terminator!!!!

 

[MnFish1]

Update, 1-15-2019, so for all who may be interested or who posted info an ideas...... the culprit was........ drum role...... stray voltage from combined heater 11v, skimmer 6v , and circulator 14v . For a total of 31vac in tank. Dont ask me why two of the fish have survived. They must b part terminator!!!!

This is from another thread - curious as to others comments:

"Stray voltage of any magnitude is not harmful. Voltage does nothing. It is current that does something, and is what can be potentially dangerous. Without a path to ground, there is no current flow.

The voltage in the tank, can be read with the meter, because a current flows through the meter to ground, due to the voltage potential in the tank. Remove the grounded test probe, you get no reading = no current flow. Current does the work, not the voltage.

Anything under 40VAC, is considered "low voltage," as in most cases the current flow caused by this potential, would be harmless. Getting above 50VAC, as kcress indicates is "high voltage" and the potential for injury or death is present, if that voltage is given a path to ground.

Saltwater, due to its ionic nature, will always show some potential (voltage) between the water and ground. The potential may be too small to measure, or you may read 12VAC, or so. Also, inductive loads (pumps) can impress a voltage in the water--due to the magnetic fields, yet not be damaged or malfunctioning. However, if you are reading something above 40VAC, it is cause for further investigation."

 

[nritter69]

Ya I dont buy it, sorry. I'm in the trades myself and in electrical theory that is correct however when there is voltage present in the water the fish can sense this it actually causes a common disease I believe it's HLLC I could be wrong on the acronym though it head and lateral line it has to do with the extra sensory fish have in the upper lateral line down their back and in their nose that is able to pick up on the smallest amount of electricity that is created by even another living thing. Yes u or I probably wouldn't notice 30v unless we were grounded, but for fish it drives them crazy.

 

[nritter69]

Also by putting something like a titanium heater that is grounded with the third prong it will take the voltage in the tank to 0v. I now know this from experience. See most of the pumps,circulators, heaters we use only have to prong plugs with no metal and no earth ground thus u see these small stray voltages.

 

[Jay Norris]

Also by putting something like a titanium heater that is grounded with the third prong it will take the voltage in the tank to 0v. I now know this from experience. See most of the pumps,circulators, heaters we use only have to prong plugs with no metal and no earth ground thus u see these small stray voltages.

So how are the fish doing now that you found and corrected the problem? You stated that the heater, skimmer pump, and a circulating pump were all leaking voltage into the water, could they also have been leaking something else into the water?

 

[MnFish1]

Ya I dont buy it, sorry. I'm in the trades myself and in electrical theory that is correct however when there is voltage present in the water the fish can sense this it actually causes a common disease I believe it's HLLC I could be wrong on the acronym though it head and lateral line it has to do with the extra sensory fish have in the upper lateral line down their back and in their nose that is able to pick up on the smallest amount of electricity that is created by even another living thing. Yes u or I probably wouldn't notice 30v unless we were grounded, but for fish it drives them crazy.

HLLE. And it’s probably not caused by voltage but there are lots of theories. I agree with you though that anything is possible. But again what I’ve heard and seen with stray voltage is that it causes neurology symptoms like jerking. Etc. not just death. It also affects corals inverts and seems like it should have killed your other fish also. Just saying maybe be careful adding new stuff

 

[MnFish1]

HLLE. And it’s probably not caused by voltage but there are lots of theories. I agree with you though that anything is possible. But again what I’ve heard and seen with stray voltage is that it causes neurology symptoms like jerking. Etc. not just death. It also affects corals inverts and seems like it should have killed your other fish also. Just saying maybe be careful adding new stuff

Ps. Others are probably more knowledgeable than I am but I doubt that that level of voltage would kill fish the way you’re describing. Have looked at numerous sources that suggest this