Help to Understand this

[Marquiseo]

My tank:
50g, SPS dominant (1 large colony, several mini colonies and frags), LPS corals


I just started the Fauna Marin Balling Light additives last night. I originally was using ESV.

I followed the directions for fauna marin and did my initial testing of Ca (Red Sea) and Alk (Hanna). I haven't done magnesium yet but last I tested I was at 1420ppm. So below were my results:

Initial:
Ca: 360ppm
Alk: 7.67 dKH
pH: 8.12 (apex probe)


I then added 5ml of the ALK supplement and and 10mL of the Ca supplement which raised the paramaters to:
Alk : 7.84 dKH
Ca: 375 ppm

I set my doser to begin ALK supplementation in the amount of 10mL starting at 1am - 5am (2ml every hour) and the Ca to dose only 2.8mL at 1pm.

I just did another test for today just now and got these results:

Ca: 355 ppm
Alk: 7.67 dKH
pH: 8.23 (Apex probe)

I redid the hanna alkalinity test & Red Sea Ca test and got the same reading.


How is it possible for my Ca to be consumed that much when it never dropped that fast with the ESV supplement? It has been less than 24hrs. Also, my pH never went that high unless my doser was adding Alk supplement at the time I notice but it would eventually go back down.

 

[KJ]

Post yours Magnesium level.

 

[Marquiseo]

Post yours Magnesium level.

1420ppm was measured 3 days ago. I know it hasn't dropped more than too much since. I will test it in a bit. I didn't test the same night because I haven't connected it to my doser.

 

[Marquiseo]

Just tested magnesium and it was 1400ppm with my Red Sea test.

 

[Marquiseo]

The explanation need is how that my levels drop dramatically as soon as I switch to Fauna Marin which is less than a 24hr switch? I was originally dosing ESV but it wasn't that much because I just moved to my new home last month and the corals haven't fully settled. It, also, was only a small drop for ALK (.4 dkh everyday) and Calcium only dropped 5ppm every other day when using ESV.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

The explanation need is how that my levels drop dramatically as soon as I switch to Fauna Marin which is less than a 24hr switch? I was originally dosing ESV but it wasn't that much because I just moved to my new home last month and the corals haven't fully settled. It, also, was only a small drop for ALK (.4 dkh everyday) and Calcium only dropped 5ppm every other day when using ESV.

Not exactly what you need. What you need is to recognize that calcium testing (like most things we test) is prone to significant testing variability. There's pretty much a constant stream of people asking how could my values could possibly change like "X". In many cases, it is clearly impossible. So don't agonize over daily fluctuations in calcium or magnesium as they are most likely testing issues. Average it over a few days running to see a trend.

FWIW, an 18-20 ppm drop in calcium must be accompanied by a 2.8 dKH drop in alkalinity, unless you dose one or the other enough to offset that ratio. Since you do not appear to have had that happen, it is safe to say calcium did not drop that much (unless you possibly also did a water change that may mess with demand ratios). The 5 ppm calcium and 0.4 dKH alk demand you saw previously is closer to reality.

 

[Marquiseo]

Not exactly what you need. What you need is to recognize that calcium testing (like most things we test) is prone to significant testing variability. There's pretty much a constant stream of people asking how could my values could possibly change like "X". In many cases, it is clearly impossible. So don't agonize over daily fluctuations in calcium or magnesium as they are most likely testing issues. Average it over a few days running to see a trend.

FWIW, an 18-20 ppm drop in calcium must be accompanied by a 2.8 dKH drop in alkalinity, unless you dose one or the other enough to offset that ratio. Since you do not appear to have had that happen, it is safe to say calcium did not drop that much (unless you possibly also did a water change that may mess with demand ratios). The 5 ppm calcium and 0.4 dKH alk demand you saw previously is closer to reality.

-I always take steps to reduce human error such as proper drops and direction, cleaning of testing vials by using ro/di water. test tube scrubber, & portable mattress blower for airing, and proper timing using my digital kitchen timer. I, also, redid the tests and got the same results. I get that there may be variations in the results by 5-10ppm.
-My doser didn't malfunction because it can inform me of how much is dosed each day. It beeps, loudly, when it is dosing. It is, also, calibrated in which I check every other week to make sure it is still calibrated by having it to dispense 10ml into a graduated cylinder.
-As for the test kits, my test kits are not expired and doesn't do so till 12/2016. I thought it was testing as well which is why i redid it and got the same results.
-I didn't do a WC as well to offset it. I haven't done a WC since July 3 which was when I set the tank back up from my move.

Why would my pH rise above the norm when all the variables remained the same besides the additives?
Note: Alkalinity isn't dosed until 1am-5am and the testing was conducted at 9pm.

 

[Marquiseo]

I will test again tonight at 9pm and post my results. I did alter the dosing amount after the test results: Ca to 10ml and Alk to 15mL.

 

[twilliard]

Randy covered that well!
BUT should have been noted that not all 2 parts are created equal.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

pH is controlled by the alkalinity and the CO2 level.

Different alkalinity additives have different impacts on pH. If you were using B-ionic Bicarbonate, the new one may well have a pH boost the Bicarbonate did not, since it is likely carbonate based.

If you were using normal B-ionic, then there's no two part likely to cause a higher pH, unless, of course, you are now dosing more. The more alk part you dose, the higher the pH may be.

As to testing, even perfect technique does not give the same answer every time with the inexpensive kits we use.

 

[Marquiseo]

Ok thanks, Randy!

 

[Marquiseo]

Ok just did my testing and got these results:



Calcium @ 10mL dosed - 360 ppm

Alkalinity @ 15mL dosed - 7.61 dKH

 

[twilliard]

Add more!

 

[twilliard]

Add more and I have a feeling that you are confused at why your numbers are low compared to esv

 

[Marquiseo]

Add more and I have a feeling that you are confused at why your numbers are low compared to esv

Thanks Cpt. Obvious. No, I am not. I just posted my results because I said I would at 9pm.

 

[Marquiseo]

The fauna marin system doesn't list the concentration of each additive. You have to dose it to see how much it raises the parameters in your system by and adjust which is what I have been doing. The original question was about the sudden increase in consumption.

 

[twilliard]

Thanks Cpt. Obvious. No, I am not. I just posted my results because I said I would at 9pm.

Wow hey no aggression please.
There was no sudden increase in consumption.
Dose even more get it stable and the answer to your thread will be answered

 

[Marquiseo]

Wow hey no aggression please.
There was no sudden increase in consumption.
Dose even more get it stable and the answer to your thread will be answered

There's no aggression buddy.

I will break it down for you.

My daily consumption rate without dosing:
Alk- .4 dkH
Ca - 5ppm every other day; So 2.5ppm a day (*earlier I accidentally typed 2 ppm instead of 2 mL and 5 ppm)


ESV dosage - 5ml of ALK and 2ml Ca; kept parameters at my desired range.
Fauna Marin - 5ml of Alk supplement raises it by .17 and 10ml of Ca supplement raised it by 15ppm.

Initial:
Ca: 360ppm
Alk: 7.67 dKH

Addition of Fauna Marin Supplement (5ml Alk and 10ml Ca):
Alk : 7.84 dKH (+.17 dkH)
Ca: 375 ppm (+15ppm)

Testing the next day with dosage of 10mL ALK and 2.8mL of Ca (yesterday):
Ca: 355 ppm (20ppm difference; 17.5ppm difference from the normal daily consumption)
Alk: 7.67 dKH


As I stated, I just switch. Nothing should change that fast in less than 24hrs. Even with only adding 2.8mL of Ca, the daily consumption rate should have been 2.5 ppm or somewhere around there and not a 17.5 ppm difference. It could have, also, been precipitation.

 

[bobssecrtsn]

I don't go on r2r much, mainly Rc. But test kits can often drift, I had the same test kit as yours, Red Sea. And my alk started drifting down as I kept dosing more, until I bought saliferts and my alk was at 9+.

What I'm trying to say is if you really want to be accurate and a test junky, try another brand.

My test kit was 3 months old to and it started drifting.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I'd suggest making a one time correction with calcium chloride (or just the calcium part of the two part) to 420 ppm rather than trying to get a daily dose to raise it then stabilize it.