Help- Toadstool peeling / discolored on base (not shedding)

[cdw79]

So trying to plan out the cut (pardon the crudely drawn diagram). The yellow is roughly where the stem is, the red is the area I'm trying to save. The top, left, and right sides in this picture all have white on them, the top being the worst from the pic earlier. Will it be able to stand if I cut so much of the stem / crown to where it's lopsided?

I also technically see bits of that growth down here (the side I'm trying to save) so I assume I'll need to chop that off too to be safe

This part seems the most challenging- the white stuff has spread on the lower part of the stem and I'm not sure if I can keep much at all of it, so this part might be kinda hanging.

The more I look art it the more it seems I can probably only save 1/4 of it at best. Any ideas? Otherwise after work I'll go by CVS (hopefully they have a razor blade) and try my luck...

 

[sfin52]

So trying to plan out the cut (pardon the crudely drawn diagram). The yellow is roughly where the stem is, the red is the area I'm trying to save. The top, left, and right sides in this picture all have white on them, the top being the worst from the pic earlier. Will it be able to stand if I cut so much of the stem / crown to where it's lopsided?

I also technically see bits of that growth down here (the side I'm trying to save) so I assume I'll need to chop that off too to be safe

This part seems the most challenging- the white stuff has spread on the lower part of the stem and I'm not sure if I can keep much at all of it, so this part might be kinda hanging.

The more I look art it the more it seems I can probably only save 1/4 of it at best. Any ideas? Otherwise after work I'll go by CVS (hopefully they have a razor blade) and try my luck...

Any hardware store including Walmart with have razor blades for a utility knife. Excato knives will work too.

 

[cdw79]

I've decided I want to try @vetteguy53081 and @Eagle_Steve 's suggestion and try an iodine dip- just ordered some from Amazon to get here tomorrow. As much as the peeling makes me anxious I guess in theory it still is opening for the most part. Figured I'll dip it tomorrow, observe the rest of the day and tomorrow, and put my Wyze cam on it while I'm gone. If it's gotten worse when I get back I'll take my L and carve it up, but I want to try and keep it in one piece and heal it if I can... We'll see

 

[Eagle_Steve]

I've decided I want to try @vetteguy53081 and @Eagle_Steve 's suggestion and try an iodine dip- just ordered some from Amazon to get here tomorrow. As much as the peeling makes me anxious I guess in theory it still is opening for the most part. Figured I'll dip it tomorrow, observe the rest of the day and tomorrow, and put my Wyze cam on it while I'm gone. If it's gotten worse when I get back I'll take my L and carve it up, but I want to try and keep it in one piece and heal it if I can... We'll see

If dipping a coral that big, be prepared for a lot of water to rinse it with afterwards. Doing a dip on such a large piece, will require a few dips in SW to make sure not to get too much in the tank after the dip.

I suggest, doing a water change and then saving the old water to do the dip and the rinses. This will prevent a more drastic parameter change once you put the coral back into the tank and will keep the params about the same as the tank while doing the dips and then the rinse.

 

[KrisReef]

I've decided I want to try @vetteguy53081 and @Eagle_Steve 's suggestion and try an iodine dip- just ordered some from Amazon to get here tomorrow. As much as the peeling makes me anxious I guess in theory it still is opening for the most part. Figured I'll dip it tomorrow, observe the rest of the day and tomorrow, and put my Wyze cam on it while I'm gone. If it's gotten worse when I get back I'll take my L and carve it up, but I want to try and keep it in one piece and heal it if I can... We'll see

I'm just finishing reading this thread and glad that you are going away. It may give this leather time to heal on its own without surgery or another dip. I think that the leather is trying to adjust and heal after the move from the old tank into yours. The 'damage' that I can see on the coral that resulted from removing it from the old tank does not cause me any great concern. These animals live on reefs and have to reattach after cyclones blast them off the reef. Your parameters are fine, and the coral now has to adjust to and the new currents and light. Part of that process will be the sloughing at damaged areas and shedding /expulsion should be expected after any move. I think it looks rather perky and fine.

Giving it a break from more treatments while you are away, presuming the water quality, temperature, and normal functioning of your set up happen during your vacation will hopefully allow everyone to get some needed rest and recovery time?

Where are you going for vacation? My last planned trip was to collect in the south Pacific and that got cancelled because of a flu bug hysteria. The loss of that vacation has negatively impacted my life but I am trying to keep calm inspite of that loss. I'm worried more about your vacation than I am about this coral. It is good you want to keep it healthy and I fully believe that it will have a better time on this vacation than you will, atm? Prove me wrong, please! I think the coral is healthy enough to out live us both.

It will be fine.

 

[cdw79]

Well, I've got an update.

I went on my vacation to NYC (thanks for asking @KrisReef haha), and not good news. Whereas I was getting polyp extension to some degree before I left, since I've returned the toadstool has not opened up. Today is the 5th day since I got home, for reference. The shedding had seemingly spread from what I can tell, and as of today I'm seeing algae growing on the thick film it's letting go of, ironically on the side with the most flow.

What's worse, now it seems my big green sinularia colony, which was the first coral I added a good 5-6 months ago and has grown like a week and been absolutely bulletproof, has shrunk up. Same situation, ever since I got home Sunday night. I've blown on it with the Turkey baster a little just to make sure nothing seemed to be on the surface, but no luck.

I did notice that while on vacation my ALK went down into the mid to low 8's- it is usually around the mid to high 9's. Turns out it was a combination of a slight blockage in my dosing pump plus the alkalinity finally getting low. I replaced the alkalinity supplement and now we're back up to the usual 9.5 or so.

Other than that, while I did have high ish phosphates last week, between water changed, NOPOX (mostly for algae that's irritating my Digi), and feeding more conservatively, they returned to normal levels. When I tested yesterday, I got 0 on my Hanna checker, and around 5 ppm nitrate from my test kit.

Other parameters as of my APEX test at noon today while at work:
9.52 alk
460 Ca
1347 Mg

I'm really not sure what to do at this point. I don't THINK the leather is upsetting the tank per se with its potential toxins- I have digis, LPS, zoas, and mushrooms all happy as can be- but something is up, and the Sinularia, which never gets shrunk up for more than an hour or two being this ticked off this long has me concerned.

I'm feeling inclined to iodine dip the toadstool again (no idea what else to at this point besides blow off the algae, though it's new so it doesn't seem like that's the issue) and maybe replace the carbon yet again? I changed it the day before I left, so it's not even a week and a half old, but I'm running out of places to look to find issues.

Any ideas?

 

[sfin52]

Your PH is 9+

 

[DeniseAndy]

I have moved toadstools that were quite large and it always ends badly. Meaning, I end up having to frag them and regrow. The whole thing never seems to make it. I have tried on a 20" toadstool and another around the same size. Both hated being moved and caused lots of issues. I did move them to qt tanks, but they absolutely destroyed the water with mucous and they were very unhappy.
So, eventually, I gave into just fragging it to a few bigger pieces and some smaller. I now have one of each of these two giants in my system doing very well.

If you do not run carbon, run it. If you do, change it often. Never cut a leather in the tank if you can avoid it. Especially if it is already hurting. It will tick off everything.

It does look like the tissue was torn away from rock and damaged the coral a bit. They can usually heal, but sometimes will struggle. Time is good.

You tried time. I would frag at this point. OUTSIDE the tank. Make sure the healthy tissue is used. Lugols after fragging.
Also, one last note, make sure the flow is not directly on it. This really ticks off these guys sometimes and they will disintegrate.

 

[cdw79]

Your PH is 9+

Big typo, was thinking about what I was going to write later. I meant ALK was below 9 and I got it back up to my typical levels, not pH. Edited the original post to reflect that. pH is about 8, give or take a bit depending on the time of day

 

[cdw79]

I have moved toadstools that were quite large and it always ends badly. Meaning, I end up having to frag them and regrow. The whole thing never seems to make it. I have tried on a 20" toadstool and another around the same size. Both hated being moved and caused lots of issues. I did move them to qt tanks, but they absolutely destroyed the water with mucous and they were very unhappy.
So, eventually, I gave into just fragging it to a few bigger pieces and some smaller. I now have one of each of these two giants in my system doing very well.

If you do not run carbon, run it. If you do, change it often. Never cut a leather in the tank if you can avoid it. Especially if it is already hurting. It will tick off everything.

It does look like the tissue was torn away from rock and damaged the coral a bit. They can usually heal, but sometimes will struggle. Time is good.

You tried time. I would frag at this point. OUTSIDE the tank. Make sure the healthy tissue is used. Lugols after fragging.
Also, one last note, make sure the flow is not directly on it. This really ticks off these guys sometimes and they will disintegrate.

So now the problem is I'm not even sure what t frag. The perimeter is virtually fully encapsulated by the shedding, and I still don't know what that is, why it's there, anything like that. Surely I wouldn't just keep the stump would I?

And for the other leather, does it make sense that just it is having an issue and not more sensitive species? Do I need to change the carbon already after only 8 days?

 

[DeniseAndy]

First off, it sounds like it may be doing what mine did. It throws off mucous continuously. This is bad for other corals. If it is messing with the water clarity, get it out and frag in separate tank right away.

How do you run carbon? A Carbon RX or a bag? Need to make sure the water goes through it. 8days will just depend on qty, how it is run and how bad the leather is sliming.

Frag the head and throw the stump. I hate hurting living things, but this guy could be in bad shape. When I did mine, I fragged the best looking areas and stuck them in a dish of rubble to sit and attach for a couple weeks.

Now, I do not know how bad yours is. The two I dealt with were nasty by day two. Smelled horrible too. I saved a few really nice pieces, you can too.

 

[cdw79]

@DeniseAndy Not sure how far back on the thread you've been (it's been quite the saga) but the shedding only comes from the sides- not the crown. I still can't figure out what this is- I've seen it get all mucus-y before.

My carbon is in a bad right at the area where water passes from the initial chamber to the skimmer chamber. It definitely gets some flow, though not hugely strong and I'm sure water does go over instead of through it to some degree. I just don't know where else I would put it in there, frankly.

The issue I have, though, is that the progression of this flaking stuff from the side has traveled all the way around the coral and is all over it now, so any fragged part will still have this issue on it. Are you saving to basically cut the crown off and get ride of the stump? And I guess just try and rubber band it to a rock or something? If the polyps haven't come out in days would this actually solve the problem

Is another iodine dip just prolonging the inevitable?

 

[cdw79]

Btw, did your situation only bother other leathers like mine is? That part really boggles my mind. I'd think the digis would be the first things to get bothered out of any of the corals

 

[DeniseAndy]

Yes. To answer quickly, just cut the top. Toss the whole trunk. Something is working it's way into this guy.
At least that is my guess since I cannot see it.
The other corals may have better defenses. If you have micromussa, I would guess those would be bothered soon.
Bothering the other leathers does not surprise me. I have witnessed similar with fragging. Especially my neon sinularia/nepthea.

 

[cdw79]

Does the final piece need to have no peeling areas on it? Most of the flaps do if not all, I need to give it a closer look

 

[Alenya]

Remove and frag the toadstool, make a number of pieces on rubble and dip them and hold them in a different tank. Chances are the amount of mucus shedding/irritation are bothering the other corals in your tank.

After a few weeks you can assess the frags for the best healthiest looking ones and return them to your tank to grow out

 

[cdw79]

Unfortunately I live in a very small apartment so I don't have another tank- I end up having to only buy fish from one LFS locally that pre-quarantines for that reason. That's been part of why I have been apprehensive that any fragging solution would fix it given my circumstances.

It's feeling like having to toss it may end up having to be the inevitable reality...

 

[DeniseAndy]

Use a bucket of saltwater to frag. Then another bucket to dip. Get a shallow plastic dish/glass will work too to place a bunch of rubble in. Then place in the tank in a low flow area. If the frags move, try to find a spot they do not or add a little mesh over the top.
You can sort of trap them with rubble too. Just do not smash or tie. These will be too stressed for any sort of rubberband or tying.

 

[DeniseAndy]

You may only get one survivable frag, but it is a good chance you will get one. Watch them daily. If any look like they are disintegrating, remove them. Good luck.

 

[DeniseAndy]

Use gloves too. It took forever to get that nasty smell off my hands. I am very sensitive to smells though.