HELP! Two raised bumps on new longnose butterfly fish

[vetteguy53081]

I have these Salifert test kits.

What should I monitor? Do I also need to bump the temperature to 80 degrees? It's around 73 now. I have two powerheads should I point one up to the surface? I placed an order for Coppersafe and it will be here Wednesday. Do I still need to treat with the Seachem products?

I have a bunch of coral that I would like to keep. Would this be safe with coral? I dont have anything crazy some toadstools and hammers. Should I set up another tank just for him? I'd imagine the ick is probably in the DT now anyways.

Thanks again buddy for all the help!

Pull off on seachem products and focus on ich.
80 deg acceptable.
Separate tank for treatment best. You don’t want any trace of copper in the tank where coral inhabits

 

[elchopo]

PH - Nitrate-Ammonia

Would TTM method work better? You mention that you think the spots on the side are due to copper dosing. So I dont know if doing more copper dosing would just cause too many issues.

 

[MnFish1]

Sorry I just saw this on another thread and posted this:

"THAT is interesting - I have never seen that type of lesion - were they there when you bought/got him? It could be some kind of intestinal parasite/intestinal obstruction. How big is the fish - are the lesions visible from both sides? are they getting better/worse?

I would strongly suggest that you start a new thread with this post. I think you need to be treating the Cryptocaryon sooner than later. I might consider chloroquine. Of course copper is also an excellent option @vetteguy53081 @Jay Hemdal @nereefpat @fishguy242"

to the OP - I would STRONGLY suggest - that you stick to Vetteguy's advice. It is going to lead to multiple answers - that likely will confuse you.

Its a beautiful fish. As I said in my answer - concentrate oil the ICH. And - if you can answer the other questions I asked - it might help. I'll review this thread also

 

[elchopo]

Sorry I just saw this on another thread and posted this:

"THAT is interesting - I have never seen that type of lesion - were they there when you bought/got him? It could be some kind of intestinal parasite/intestinal obstruction. How big is the fish - are the lesions visible from both sides? are they getting better/worse?

I would strongly suggest that you start a new thread with this post. I think you need to be treating the Cryptocaryon sooner than later. I might consider chloroquine. Of course copper is also an excellent option @vetteguy53081 @Jay Hemdal @nereefpat @fishguy242"

to the OP - I would STRONGLY suggest - that you stick to Vetteguy's advice. It is going to lead to multiple answers - that likely will confuse you.

Its a beautiful fish. As I said in my answer - concentrate oil the ICH. And - if you can answer the other questions I asked - it might help. I'll review this thread also

ok. I will continue my original plan on using a 29 gallon with coppersafe. Vetteguy obviously knows what he is talking about and everyone on this forum is so helpful so I know if I notice anything any different I can update my post to get additional advice.

 

[nereefpat]

29 gallon with therapeutic coppersafe is a great plan.

If it hasn't been already said, all fish in the display will need treated, and the display will need to remain fallow (fishless) for several weeks.

 

[elchopo]

29 gallon with therapeutic coppersafe is a great plan.

If it hasn't been already said, all fish in the display will need treated, and the display will need to remain fallow (fishless) for several weeks.

Yeah, I will move all my other fish and treat them as well. I dont have any thing crazy, 2 clowns, 2 damsels, a small blue fish I dont remember what it is, as well as a longnose hawkfish.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

ok. I will continue my original plan on using a 29 gallon with coppersafe. Vetteguy obviously knows what he is talking about and everyone on this forum is so helpful so I know if I notice anything any different I can update my post to get additional advice.

I get easily lost in multiple posts - did I respond to a different thread on this? While the one photo clearly shows ich, (and coppersafe is a good plan for that) the two spots on the side of the fish are eruptive - coming from inside the fish and breaking through to the surface. Hopefully they are just isolated lesions, but there is an internal fungal infection called Ichthyophonus hoferi that produces lesions like this, it is not treatable.

Jay

 

[elchopo]

I get easily lost in multiple posts - did I respond to a different thread on this? While the one photo clearly shows ich, (and coppersafe is a good plan for that) the two spots on the side of the fish are eruptive - coming from inside the fish and breaking through to the surface. Hopefully they are just isolated lesions, but there is an internal fungal infection called Ichthyophonus hoferi that produces lesions like this, it is not treatable.

Jay

I don't think you have commented on this situation in my posts. I was afraid that it was coming from inside the fish. I am going the coppersafe route and will continue to monitor them.

Thanks for your input!

 

[elchopo]

Pull off on seachem products and focus on ich.
80 deg acceptable.
Separate tank for treatment best. You don’t want any trace of copper in the tank where coral inhabits

Got the 29 set up with 20 gallons of new saltwater and 2-3 gallons of saltwater from the DT. GOt some PVC to try and help everyone be as comfy as possible. Wanted to leave a little gap because I got a HOB (with no carbon) to keep the top stirred and oxygen pumping into the water.

I put a few sponges in my DT to get the bacteria on it. How long should I leave that in there before putting it into the tank? Coppersafe is coming tomorrow. Should I move the fish tomorrow and start treatment or is there another plan I should follow?

[EDIT] - I took this picture right after I got it set up. Temperature hasn't reached the level I need it to be.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Got the 29 set up with 20 gallons of new saltwater and 2-3 gallons of saltwater from the DT. GOt some PVC to try and help everyone be as comfy as possible. Wanted to leave a little gap because I got a HOB (with no carbon) to keep the top stirred and oxygen pumping into the water.

I put a few sponges in my DT to get the bacteria on it. How long should I leave that in there before putting it into the tank? Coppersafe is coming tomorrow. Should I move the fish tomorrow and start treatment or is there another plan I should follow?

[EDIT] - I took this picture right after I got it set up. Temperature hasn't reached the level I need it to be.

The sponges really won’t be populated with beneficial bacteria for a few weeks. You should consider picking up some bacteria in a bottle like Dr Tim’s.
I wouldn’t move the fish over until you are ready with the copper, that will give less time for the ammonia to build up. You should get to a full copper dose the first day.

Jay

 

[elchopo]

The sponges really won’t be populated with beneficial bacteria for a few weeks. You should consider picking up some bacteria in a bottle like Dr Tim’s.
I wouldn’t move the fish over until you are ready with the copper, that will give less time for the ammonia to build up. You should get to a full copper dose the first day.

Jay

That's what I was afraid of. Would Seachem prime work? I use that for my discus.

 

[elchopo]

That's what I was afraid of. Would Seachem prime work? I use that for my discus.

The sponges really won’t be populated with beneficial bacteria for a few weeks. You should consider picking up some bacteria in a bottle like Dr Tim’s.
I wouldn’t move the fish over until you are ready with the copper, that will give less time for the ammonia to build up. You should get to a full copper dose the first day.

Jay

If Prime doesn't work. Is this what I will need?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

If Prime doesn't work. Is this what I will need?

Never use Prime with Cupramine, it can kill your fish as it will release free copper. The jury is still out if Prime is safe with Coppersafe or not.
Wow - Dr Tims sure is expensive! I don’t use it because I have other tanks can grab bacteria from, but Tim Hovanec is a solid researcher when it comes to nitrifying bacteria, and his product works.
Jay

 

[jassermd]

If Prime doesn't work. Is this what I will need?

Prime will help with the ammonia, but you shouldn't use it with copper. It will effect the copper concentration and produce toxic forms and levels of copper.
You may want to try Dr. Tims one and only or Seachem Stability. Those are good to use in situations like this where you can't cycle the tank.
You'll also need to monitor ammonia. Preferably with a test (NOT API) and/or perform frequent (read every 2 days) water changes with copper pre-dosed water.

 

[elchopo]

Prime will help with the ammonia, but you shouldn't use it with copper. It will effect the copper concentration and produce toxic forms and levels of copper.
You may want to try Dr. Tims one and only or Seachem Stability. Those are good to use in situations like this where you can't cycle the tank.
You'll also need to monitor ammonia. Preferably with a test (NOT API) and/or perform frequent (read every 2 days) water changes with copper pre-dosed water.

Should I got with Stability or one and only? I dont have either so I can order whatever you think may be better. How often should I be doing water changes anyways? I do know that you are supposed to add the copper to the water before adding.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Should I got with Stability or one and only? I dont have either so I can order whatever you think may be better. How often should I be doing water changes anyways? I do know that you are supposed to add the copper to the water before adding.

One and only is best . You can also get Microbacter XLM

 

[elchopo]

One and only is best . You can also get Microbacter XLM

Went with Tim's. Can I add the fish tomorrow once I dose with Coppersafe? Or should I wait till Tim's arrives?

 

[nereefpat]

Went with Tim's. Can I add the fish tomorrow once I dose with Coppersafe? Or should I wait till Tim's arrives?

I would get the fish in copper immediately.

 

[elchopo]

One and only is best . You can also get Microbacter XLM

Copper came in today. Made sure temperatures were the same and added the correct dosage and tossed him in.

Before putting him in I noticed he wasn't looking very good overall. The white pimple bumps have seemingly totally opened up to full-on open wounds. He is noticeably less yellow with some unhealthy orange markings on him.

I am really not sure what to make of it. But I guess at this point the copper treatment is still the best route to go? I didn't put any other fish in there yet because he just seems miserable so I wanted to give him some time alone. I am not as concerned about the other fish.

@Jay Hemdal not sure if these updated pictures can give any clearer picture of what may be wrong with these wounds.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Copper came in today. Made sure temperatures were the same and added the correct dosage and tossed him in.

Before putting him in I noticed he wasn't looking very good overall. The white pimple bumps have seemingly totally opened up to full-on open wounds. He is noticeably less yellow with some unhealthy orange markings on him.

I am really not sure what to make of it. But I guess at this point the copper treatment is still the best route to go? I didn't put any other fish in there yet because he just seems miserable so I wanted to give him some time alone. I am not as concerned about the other fish.

@Jay Hemdal not sure if these updated pictures can give any clearer picture of what may be wrong with these wounds.

This has become a bacterial infection and needs to be addressed first. If not mentioned. . . Best treatments are :
Kanaplex by Seachem
Neoplex by Seachem
Maracyn 2

*** One of these - Not all three at same time and remember to add aeration during treatment