Help Understanding Seneye Charts an graphs

[randallftan]

Hi All,

Was hoping to get some insight here in regards to the seneye readings i just took since i am no lighting expert but have done some readings online.

First a little about my tank. I have a red sea reefer 450 (59 x 22 tall x 20 deep), running Reef Breeders Photon v2 with T5 supplements (2 x 48 inch 54 watt ATI bulbs on sun blaster attachments. Running ATI blue plus on the front and coral plus on the back). Lights hang about 8 inches from the water.

Current lighting schedule is show below and is basically the reef breeders recommended intensity for sps tank. I will only display the mid day schedule since it runs for about 6 hours. The rest is a ramp up to to it. Ive chosen this schedule as ive decided to go mix reef but heavily on the sps end.

Mid Day Schedule

Channel 1 20%
Channel 2 20%
Channel 3 75%
Channel 4 37%
Channel 5 75%
Channel 6 75%

Channel 1 Deep Red 4 Osram 3watt 660nm
Channel 2 Green 4 Semi LED 3watt 520nm
Channel 3 Royal Blue 24 Cree XT-E 5watt 450nm
Channel 4 White 20 Cree XP-E 5watt 5500K
Channel 5 Cool Blue 16 Cree XP-E 3watt 480nm
Channel 6 Violet 20 Semi LED 3watt 420nm

Now for the readings

This is the first reading i took which is about mid tank and took this on the dashboard.

This is the second reading i took about 1 inch from the surface of the water and decided to dive into the PAR section more heavily.

Questions that i have.

1. PAR wise is there a recommended range SPS should be in. I watched the BRS video and mentioned that PAR for SPS should be around 250-350 while other sources on the internet say anywhere from 200-600. Im capping about at 500+ at the top of my tank so is that too much? I dont see any bleaching in my SPS colonies but also at the same time i dont think they are as vibrant. I understand all SPS have different requirements
2. LUX- I understand 10K LUX is about full sun so question here again is am i running too hot here? -overcast skies (~1000 lux) with breaks of full sun (~10000 lux), eventually providing direct sun (>30,000 lux)
3. PUR- Is there a need to hit 100% PUR since that is the usable radiation? If it is consuming 78% wouldnt 100% be better?
4. Kelvin- Looks like the Seneye is unable to read kelvin when there is too much blue spectrum. If that is the case, does that mean i am running too blue of lights? Assumption based on the excerpt below from Seneye...

"Actinic lighting does not have a kelvin; it is a blue-coloured (wavelength) lamp, and a single tube can add significant amounts of blue which will also give ‘not a kelvin'. Seneye looks at the combined light hitting an area i.e. what the plant or coral will receive. The advent of led lights (especially high blue) has made this deviation away from a kelvin much more common."

• My understanding is that 6500K would give the best growth
• 10K-15K is a mix of growth and color
• 20k is just to color up corals

My end goal here is to color up corals more as ive seen pretty decent growth. With that assumption i would think i should steer to around 20K so based on Reef Breeders schedule

Kelvin Rating CH1 CH2 CH3 CH4 CH5 CH6
7500K 100 100 50 100 50 50
10000K 70 70 65 100 65 65
12000K 70 70 80 100 80 80
14000K 50 50 100 100 100 100
16000K 50 30 100 85 100 100
18000K 30 30 100 75 100 100
20000K 30 30 100 55 100 100 <--- this is what i need to hit but my gut is telling me that this would mean i would hit PAR levels in the 700-800. Alternatively i would be open to hitting 16 or 18K since that would be good growth and color - Looking for recommendation here.


Hope this was enough info but feel free to ping any other questions if you have them. Again, thanks for the help and thanks for reading!

Randall

 

[randallftan]

bump

 

[Nano sapiens]

Spectrum wise, the basic formula is to provide optimal PUR with the cooler colors (Violets/Blues), then tune the warmer colors to get the tank look that suits you. Optimal fluorescence is mostly provided by the cooler spectrum colors (20K type lighting emphasizes this) and is what most aquarists are interested in. Non-fluorescent colored pigmentation (chromoproteins) can be enhanced visually by some of the warmer colored wavelengths.

Ralph.

 

[randallftan]

thanks Ralph. When you mention optimal PUR is there a number or as long as i hit the 20K spectrum then im good?

 

[Nano sapiens]

thanks Ralph. When you mention optimal PUR is there a number or as long as i hit the 20K spectrum then im good?

The short answer is 'yes', 20k is great if you are after maximum fluorescent 'pop'. One thing to remember is that '20k' with LEDs only refers to the color that we perceive (one can have all sorts of different spectra and then end up with something that looks 20K).

The longer answer is that 'Optimal PUR' is related to each individual coral as they all have their own tolerance for how much intensity they can take before becoming photo saturated and/or photo inhibited. Assuming the LED array's channel settings are set to produce good PUR levels, we can use a PAR meter (or a LUX meter with a conversion factor to PAR) to determine if we have enough intensity to adequately stimulate the zooxanthellae (photosynthesis) and fluorescent/non fluorescent pigment production. How the corals are placed in the tank (top, middle, bottom, partial shade, etc.) then determines how much PUR/PAR they each receive.

Quite a while back, the spectral output of a '20K' MH Radium bulb was found to be excellent for fluorescent 'pop'. A lot of LED arrays tried to mimic this (or something similar). Here's the output graph so you can see how much of the blue (peak at ~455 nm), especially, is emphasized compared to the relatively small amounts of the warmer colors:

Most current LED arrays provide some true violet and typically a good amount of hyper violet (aka 'actinic') as the LEDs for these wavelengths became available at more reasonable prices. These wavelengths provide a lot of PUR intensity, but our eyes are relatively insensitive to them so it's easy to burn corals if these are cranked up too fast/too high.

As an example, here is a Maxpect Razor at 10K with a good amount of Hyper Violet and just a touch of true Violet:

This is an excellent article if you want to take a deep dive into how light effects corals in nature and in our aquariums:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/10/aafeature

Ralph.

 

[randallftan]

Ralph,

thanks for that! that was a very helpful read. Follow up question if you dont mind.

So I run reef breeder leds and they tell me to run 30/30/100/50/100/100 % on the channels to hit 20k. If I did 15/15/50/25/50/50 % would I still be hitting 20k but just less par? Question is because if I run the first one I would be at like 800 par

 

[Nano sapiens]

Ralph,

thanks for that! that was a very helpful read. Follow up question if you dont mind.

So I run reef breeder leds and they tell me to run 30/30/100/50/100/100 % on the channels to hit 20k. If I did 15/15/50/25/50/50 % would I still be hitting 20k but just less par? Question is because if I run the first one I would be at like 800 par

I'm not personally familiar with the RB lighting controller, but I would think that the lighting controller output of 15/15/50/25/50/50 % would still be representative of 20K lighting (just with ~1/2 the intensity).

The BRS recommendations (in regards to appropriate PAR level ranges), are similar to my own small system with my DIY LED array. Whether 400, 500 or 600 PAR at the surface is not really that important. What you need to determine is the PAR produced at the coral's location and see if it falls within the range suitable for that particular coral type/morph.

Coral coloration is influenced by a number of factors, not just light. Available nutrition (or lack thereof) is highly influential, too. Alkalinity level and stability, flow characteristics, abundance of certain trace metals all play a role. Takes time and attention to detail to dial in all the contributing factors just right, which is part of the challenge

Ralph.

 

[randallftan]

That was my thinking, but i sent an email to Logan at reef breeders just to confirm.

Certainly understand PAR should be taken at where the SPS are and majority of the SPS (WD, Angry Bird, yellow floyd, terra de fuego, etc etc) are sitting around the 550-580 range after taking more readings. Took about 4 months to ramp to the current intensity so no signs of bleaching or stress.

100% agree that light isnt the only factor here but i feel its possibly the largest unknown i have since i test my tank regularly and ALK/CA is hooked up to a doser so the levels are pretty constant.

Temp - 78
Salinity- 1.026
Alk- Solid 9
CA- 410-420 (will prob bump this up)
Mag- 1300
Phosphate - 0.07 (little high here and working to get this down)
Nitrates - Unknown (just bought a kit to test this)
Trace elements - unknown (still in the process of figuring out this one but in the mean time, 5 gal water change a week)

Trying to just narrow down all the unkowns so i can pin point what the issue is. Work in progress! Will have to check the Nitrates as i know that is a big factor as well.

 

[Nano sapiens]

That was my thinking, but i sent an email to Logan at reef breeders just to confirm.

Certainly understand PAR should be taken at where the SPS are and majority of the SPS (WD, Angry Bird, yellow floyd, terra de fuego, etc etc) are sitting around the 550-580 range after taking more readings. Took about 4 months to ramp to the current intensity so no signs of bleaching or stress.

100% agree that light isnt the only factor here but i feel its possibly the largest unknown i have since i test my tank regularly and ALK/CA is hooked up to a doser so the levels are pretty constant.

Temp - 78
Salinity- 1.026
Alk- Solid 9
CA- 410-420 (will prob bump this up)
Mag- 1300
Phosphate - 0.07 (little high here and working to get this down)
Nitrates - Unknown (just bought a kit to test this)
Trace elements - unknown (still in the process of figuring out this one but in the mean time, 5 gal water change a week)

Trying to just narrow down all the unkowns so i can pin point what the issue is. Work in progress! Will have to check the Nitrates as i know that is a big factor as well.

That seems a bit high for LED PAR on those Acros. By their nature, typical LED arrays put out a lot of PUR due to the predominately blue spectrum, and when included, high violet/hyper violet. Just throwing numbers out there, but 650 PAR MH or T5 might be more equivalent to ~500 PAR LED (from the coral's perspective due to similar PUR). I'd say that it is likely that you are photo saturating and possibly even photo inhibiting them (which would cause stress). A gradual lowering down to maybe the 400'ish PAR zone might be in order and should still provide the intensity to maximally stimulate pigmentation.

Total daylight lighting time and 'peak' lighting play into the picture. 3-4 hours of peak lighting is typically enough to maximize pigmentation at the proper intensity/spectrum and is what I use. Somewhere around 8 - 12 hrs is typically used for total daylight.

I have to say that I'm no 'Acro Meister' having kept only a few that quickly got to large for my small aquarium. I have a lot more experience with medium-ish light level SPS such as Seriatopora, Montipora, Pavona, Leptoseris, etc. Others with more hands-on Acro experience may chime in here for you.

Ralph.

 

[randallftan]

Noted. Thanks for the informative advice from Ralph!

Logan from reef breeders replied as well and mentioned that the numbers are scale-able so i went ahead and did some math to get them to scale down. When i get home later today i will reschedule it to the below intensity...

Mid Day Schedule
Channel 1 17.5%
Channel 2 17.5%
Channel 3 70%
Channel 4 31.5%
Channel 5 70%
Channel 6 70%

Once i bring it down then ill take some PAR readings and update the thread to what i get.

Question about total daylight and peak day light - What is the difference?

• I run my Mid Day Schedule for 7 hours (noon -7pm) per reef breeder recommendation. Does that fall into Total daylight lighting or Peak lighting?

Hoping to get more acro meisters in this thread

 

[Nano sapiens]

IME, I've found a gradual decrease of lighting at no more than 5%/week best. When increasing, I use half that at 2-3%/week. Going too fast, especially when increasing, can cause severe stress to the corals.

Total daylight hours is the total lighting period for each day (7 hours in your case right now). 'Peak' lighting is when all the channels are outputting at their maximum programmed settings (set by the aquarist), which simulates noon/early afternoon peak sun light (3 - 4 hours is typically enough to stimulate full pigment production if the intensity/spectrum is correct). As an example, if you run 7 hours total lighting and 4 hours peak lighting, you would have a ramp up of 1-1/2 hrs. and a ramp down of 1-1/2 hrs. (with a typical LED array capable of 'ramping').

Some people run a much longer peak lighting at lower intensity, which works too, but may not fully stimulate pigment production (due to not enough intensity), for the higher light loving corals.

Ralph.