Help Velvet?

neo1738 · Jan 7, 2021

My RG has been funny for a week or 2 but in his normal hole, sometimes laying in the sand etc. Today he was laying in the sand breathing fast and scales look terrible. Seems pretty quick in last 12-20 hrs. Any thoughts?!

Sam816 · Jan 7, 2021

Looks like velvet. Sorry

Do you or can you get your hands on any meds? I don't think there is enough time for copper but may be something else. Methylene blue or malachite green based maybe? A hail Mary attempt?

neo1738 · Jan 7, 2021

Don't have quarantine but should I remove from the tank before other get infected?

vetteguy53081 · Jan 7, 2021

Chloroquine phosphate is the treatment of choice for velvet, but copper also works if symptoms are caught early on. These also work on ich, so if in doubt treating with Chloroquine or copper will have you covered both ways. A freshwater dip and/or chemical bath is recommended either before or during treatment, due to the severity of this disease; however these would only provide temporary relief and will not eradicate velvet.

neo1738 · Jan 7, 2021

Yeah what is incubation period for velvet this fish has been in tank for about 2 mo. Newest additions are from Live Aquaria (good qt process) and about 3 weeks old in the tank.

neo1738 · Jan 7, 2021

Anyone else thoughts on anything not velvet?

neo1738 · Jan 7, 2021

Anyone else thoughts on anything not velvet?

landshark777 · Jan 7, 2021

1. Prepare saltwater for the bath by having it set to the right temperature and heavily aerating it. You can accomplish the latter by running an airstone or pointing a powerhead towards the surface of the water for at least 1 hour (longer is better). Alternatively, you can use Display Tank (DT) water or even from your Quarantine Tank (QT) provided no medications/chemicals are present in the water.

2. Add saltwater (using measuring cup) to the large glass bowl. Keep track of exactly how much water is added - either in cups or ml. (Do this beforehand if preparing saltwater for the bath right in the glass bowl.) Make sure your fish has enough water to swim around and last for 30 minutes without aeration.

3. Discontinue all aeration before adding Hydrogen Peroxide to the water. Using a syringe or pipette, add 3% Hydrogen Peroxide as per dosing instructions below. Dip the tip below the waterline and spread the H2O2 throughout the water. (Do not allow any air/bubbles to enter the water at this point.) After dosing is complete, gently stir the water using a metal spoon. The reason you want to be careful not to create any gas exchange/aeration once the H2O2 has been added is to prevent the atoms from releasing their bond and becoming just oxygen + water.

Dosing instructions: To achieve ~ 150 ppm H2O2 add:

1.25 ml of 3% H2O2 per 1 cup of saltwater.

OR

5 ml of 3% H2O2 per 1 liter of saltwater.

4. Now it's time to add the fish. Again, do not aerate during treatment. The bath water should be perfectly still. It's okay to use a heater, but probably not necessary since the bath only lasts 30 minutes. Observe closely and remove the fish if showing signs of distress. The vast majority of fish will handle it just fine. After 30 minutes, remove the fish and transfer into a QT for further treatment: https://humble.fish/velvet/

Pros – Effective, easy-to-source “pre-treatment” before fish is placed in QT with copper or Chloroquine. In this study, a single 30 minute treatment with 75 ppm hydrogen peroxide "greatly reduced" Velvet trophonts on the fish: https://www.researchgate.net/public...n_the_Pacific_Threadfin_Polydactylus_sexfilis

neo1738 · Jan 8, 2021

So now I noticed my clown has white stringy poop like my RG who is still barely hanging on. Not 100% this fits velvet. RG never had white spots just loss of color. Ideas?

neo1738 · Jan 9, 2021

Well he's still alive. Breathing has slowed from 100/min to about 40. He is still eating. He mostly lays on the bottom of the acclimation box. When he does swim it's usually upside down. Any new thoughts?

Jay Hemdal · Jan 9, 2021

landshark777 said:
1. Prepare saltwater for the bath by having it set to the right temperature and heavily aerating it. You can accomplish the latter by running an airstone or pointing a powerhead towards the surface of the water for at least 1 hour (longer is better). Alternatively, you can use Display Tank (DT) water or even from your Quarantine Tank (QT) provided no medications/chemicals are present in the water.

2. Add saltwater (using measuring cup) to the large glass bowl. Keep track of exactly how much water is added - either in cups or ml. (Do this beforehand if preparing saltwater for the bath right in the glass bowl.) Make sure your fish has enough water to swim around and last for 30 minutes without aeration.

3. Discontinue all aeration before adding Hydrogen Peroxide to the water. Using a syringe or pipette, add 3% Hydrogen Peroxide as per dosing instructions below. Dip the tip below the waterline and spread the H2O2 throughout the water. (Do not allow any air/bubbles to enter the water at this point.) After dosing is complete, gently stir the water using a metal spoon. The reason you want to be careful not to create any gas exchange/aeration once the H2O2 has been added is to prevent the atoms from releasing their bond and becoming just oxygen + water.

Dosing instructions: To achieve ~ 150 ppm H2O2 add:

1.25 ml of 3% H2O2 per 1 cup of saltwater.

OR

5 ml of 3% H2O2 per 1 liter of saltwater.

4. Now it's time to add the fish. Again, do not aerate during treatment. The bath water should be perfectly still. It's okay to use a heater, but probably not necessary since the bath only lasts 30 minutes. Observe closely and remove the fish if showing signs of distress. The vast majority of fish will handle it just fine. After 30 minutes, remove the fish and transfer into a QT for further treatment: https://humble.fish/velvet/

Pros – Effective, easy-to-source “pre-treatment” before fish is placed in QT with copper or Chloroquine. In this study, a single 30 minute treatment with 75 ppm hydrogen peroxide "greatly reduced" Velvet trophonts on the fish: https://www.researchgate.net/public...n_the_Pacific_Threadfin_Polydactylus_sexfilis

Funny thing about that treatment - turns out that the aeration aspect is all wrong, it doesn't breakdown the peroxide at all. I just finished a series of tests that showed that isn't the case...in one sample, 25 ppm peroxide was still at 20 ppm after 72 hours of heavy aeration. The thing about not using plastic spoons is also really weird - they sell peroxide in plastic bottles (grin). I need to edit that sticky....

Jay

Jay Hemdal · Jan 9, 2021

neo1738 said:
Well he's still alive. Breathing has slowed from 100/min to about 40. He is still eating. He mostly lays on the bottom of the acclimation box. When he does swim it's usually upside down. Any new thoughts?

Can you get a picture of it now? Taken under white lights is best...

Jay

neo1738 · Jan 9, 2021

Jay Hemdal said:
Can you get a picture of it now? Taken under white lights is best...

Jay

At work until 10p, will try when I get home.

Jay Hemdal · Jan 9, 2021

I may be asleep by then (I'm old) but I'll see it in the morning then.

Thanks,

Jay

neo1738 · Jan 9, 2021

neo1738 · Jan 10, 2021

Jay Hemdal · Jan 10, 2021

It wasn't clear to me: did you do a peroxide dip and then the gramma began breathing slower, or did you just isolate it and then it started breathing slower?

If you did the dip and got that much benefit, then it is likely velvet. If its breathing just spontaneously improved when you moved it - not sure what that could be, other fish fighting with it?

The stringy feces in the clownfish is a different issue (article download is on the right side of the page):

Mucus - The Slime That Binds

Mucus: The Slime that Binds Jay Hemdal C. 2020 This article examines the various causes of excess mucus coatings on fish, as well as fecal mucus issues. ------------------- The mucus produced by the fish’s epidermal cells gives them their...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

neo1738 · Jan 10, 2021

I treated metro and prazo and acclimation box. Could be fish aggression as he was trying to start a fight w my other RG few days ago but no damage to fins.

Jay Hemdal · Jan 10, 2021

neo1738 said:
I treated metro and prazo and acclimation box. Could be fish aggression as he was trying to start a fight w my other RG few days ago but no damage to fins.

Yes, the lack of fin damage had me pointing away from fighting as well. However, if I understand the timing right, you dose the metro and prazi yesterday? That seems too fast for it to have done anything...

Jay