Help with ammonium chloride dosing!

alin2 · Nov 8, 2015

Okay...I must be doing something wrong.

I'm using Dr. Tim's One and Only and his supplied ammonium chloride solution to try fish-less cycling.

I have a total of 285 gallons in my display, sump, and refugium right now.

I'm using this provided solution: http://store.drtimsaquatics.com/Ammonium-Chloride-Solution-for-Fishless-Cycling_p_190.html

It's stated concentration is 50 mg/L which is essentially 50 ppm, correct?

I'm supposed to dose the ammonia-N concentration to 2-3 ppm by using 1 drop per gallon. 1 drop is 0.05 ml according to the website so, 280 drops=14 mL.

14 ml of a 50 mg/L solution should be 0.7 mg of ammonium chloride solution.

280 gallons is 1060 liters.

0.7 mg/1060 liters is 0.00066 mg/L which is .00066 ppm! So, I'm off by over 2000 times? That can't be right.

However, when I test using an ELOS NH4/NH3 kit, I do get <0.05.

I'm confused...

I must be calculating something wrong...

biom · Nov 8, 2015

you are right, it is not possible to rise NH4-N with 3 ppm using 1 drop of solution with concentration 50 ppm (50mg/L)

alin2 · Nov 8, 2015

biom said:
you are right, it is not possible to rise NH4-N with 3 ppm using 1 drop of solution with concentration 50 ppm (50mg/L)

Well...at least my math is right.

Maybe the concentration is incorrect on Dr. Tim's website? Or, maybe I'm missing something in NH4/NH3 chemistry?

biom · Nov 8, 2015

Yes, the information on Dr.Tim's web page is not correct.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Nov 8, 2015

The 50 mg/L is clearly not correct.

alin2 · Nov 8, 2015

Maybe 50 gem/L?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Nov 8, 2015

It might be 50 g/L. 1 drop of that per gallon gives 0.66 ppm.

alin2 · Nov 8, 2015

Well, I wonder if I should really try to get to 2-3 ppm. Not really sure how since I don't own the concentration.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Nov 8, 2015

I'd contact Dr Tims, if you want to know how many drops to use.

alin2 · Nov 8, 2015

Yup. Emailed them. But, it's not encouraging that they don't have the right concentration listed.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Nov 8, 2015

True. But a lot of sites have serious issues. Brightwell, Tropic Marin, etc.

Lenny_S · Nov 8, 2015

I just dosed Dr. Tim's ammonia chloride today in my 200 gallon system. On the bottle it said that 1 drop per gallon would give a concentration of 2 ppm ammonia. I dosed 300 drops (15 ml) and measured pretty much 3 ppm with the API ammonia test. I say pretty much because the color card has a 2 ppm and a 4 ppm and the color looked in between. So I think the directions on the bottle were good.

alin2 · Nov 8, 2015

Lenny_S said:
I just dosed Dr. Tim's ammonia chloride today in my 200 gallon system. On the bottle it said that 1 drop per gallon would give a concentration of 2 ppm ammonia. I dosed 300 drops (15 ml) and measured pretty much 3 ppm with the API ammonia test. I say pretty much because the color card has a 2 ppm and a 4 ppm and the color looked in between. So I think the directions on the bottle were good.

Maybe my ammonium chloride solution is incorrect. I dosed 17 ml for my 285 G tank and am getting around 0.1 on my ELOS NH4/NH3 kit.

My Seachem Ammonia Alert badge is @ 0.05. Does the Sachem Ammonia Alert only measure free NH3?

alin2 · Nov 8, 2015

Okay...someone from Dr. Tim's emailed me back and said the solution concentration is actually 50 mg/mL...not the 50 mg/L on the website.

But, that's still impossible at 1 drop/gallon or 0.05 mL/gallon to get to 2 ppm, right?

Lenny_S · Nov 8, 2015

Mathematically you're right... 50 mg/ml is 50000 ppm, a gallon is 3785 ml, .05 ml per gallon is only a concentration of .66 ppm if I did the math right. Yet I just retested my ammonia with the API kit 12 hours after dosing 300 drops to 200 gallons and is is reading above 2 ppm but less than 4 ppm, I'm still calling that 3 ppm. I agree though, it just doesn't add up.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Nov 8, 2015

alin2 said:
Okay...someone from Dr. Tim's emailed me back and said the solution concentration is actually 50 mg/mL...not the 50 mg/L on the website.

But, that's still impossible at 1 drop/gallon or 0.05 mL/gallon to get to 2 ppm, right?

As I said above, that concentrations gives 0.66 ppm per drop per gallon.

GainesvilleReef · Nov 8, 2015

Been through this my self. As someone stated above, one drop per gallon is correct. The website is off.

alin2 · Nov 8, 2015

The email chain from Dr. Tim's:

Yes dose 3 drops/gallon.

We will correct the website - thanks

On Nov 8, 2015, at 5:44 PM, ******* <*******@comcast.net> wrote:

Thanks for the response. You should probably correct your website.
But, how does 1 drop/gallon then get to 2 ppm?
I have 285 G which is 1079 Liters. If I use 285 drops=285x0.05 mL/drop=14.25 mL. I dosed 15 mL.
15 mL at 50 mg/ml=750 mg
750 mg/1079L=.695 mg/L which is .695 ppm. Should I dose 3 times the amount to get to ~2 ppm?
If so, the solution instructions should read 3 drops/gallon?
Thanks,
**

On Nov 8, 2015, at 4:00 PM, Info at DrTim's <[email protected]> wrote:

The concentration of the solution is 50 mg/ml not 50 mg/L

DrTim's Aquatics

On Nov 8, 2015, at 9:42 AM, ******* <********@comcast.net> wrote:
Hi Dr. Tim:
Okay...I must be doing something wrong.

I'm using Dr. Tim's One and Only and his supplied ammonium chloride solution to try fish-less cycling.

I have a total of 285 gallons in my display, sump, and refugium right now.

I'm using this provided solution: http://store.drtimsaquatics.com/Ammonium-Chloride-Solution-for-Fishless-Cycling_p_190.html

It's stated concentration is 50 mg/L which is essentially 50 ppm, correct?

I'm supposed to dose the ammonia-N concentration to 2-3 ppm by using 1 drop per gallon. 1 drop is 0.05 ml according to the website so, 280 drops=14 mL.

14 ml of a 50 mg/L solution should be 0.7 mg of ammonium chloride solution.

280 gallons is 1060 liters.

0.7 mg/1060 liters is 0.00066 mg/L which is .00066 ppm! So, I'm off by over 2000 times? That can't be right.

However, when I test using an ELOS NH4/NH3 kit, I do get <0.05.

I'm confused...

I must be calculating something wrong…:-(
Thanks for the help!
Cheers,
**

So...it IS 3 drops per gallon...

biom · Nov 9, 2015

So the concentration is not 50mg/L but is 50mg/ml, the right ammount to use is not 1 drop but is 3 drops? is there something correct in their site and instructions!!!
alin2 if were you will check before using this product, just add 3 drops of the solution in one gallon fresh RO/DI water and check with your NH4 test, just to be on the safe side.

alin2 · Nov 9, 2015

Yeah...I think the leeway on the amount of ammonia is pretty broad and therefore it isn't crucial how much NH4 is added. I will say that I dosed 3 drops/gallon and my Elos NH3/NH4 test kit is only coming up at ~1 ppm TAN....so I'm not even sure the solution is really 50 mg/ml...or maybe I just got an incorrectly mixed sample.