Help With Basic Sump Flow

[vicegripjim]

I'm in need of some more abstract help in designing my sump. I'm finding pictures aplenty (and some downright beautiful stuff) but what seems like some elementary questions are eluding me so here I am with my hat out for some help, both in understanding the overall flow, as well as some more specific points. Unsolicited pointers are welcome. Keep in mind this is me planning for the long term so while I know I don't need the dosing equipment at the start, i do need it's place ready for when it's time comes.

Water comes down the from the overflow and into the sock, that part seems easy enough. Should the heaters be in this compartment or elsewhere along the line?

From here water should go into the skimmer, then the reactors?

I know the skimmer calls for a pump, but i'm unclear if the draw from the return is handling this or is it a separate pump?

Once the water has passed through all this filtration equipment is when it ends up in the 'fuge correct?

'Fuge goes into bubble trap. Dosing lines can pump into the trap area?

Trap goes to return, return goes back up to the display.

Help a fellow out?

 

[Crabs McJones]

I'm in need of some more abstract help in designing my sump. I'm finding pictures aplenty (and some downright beautiful stuff) but what seems like some elementary questions are eluding me so here I am with my hat out for some help, both in understanding the overall flow, as well as some more specific points. Unsolicited pointers are welcome. Keep in mind this is me planning for the long term so while I know I don't need the dosing equipment at the start, i do need it's place ready for when it's time comes.

Water comes down the from the overflow and into the sock, that part seems easy enough. Should the heaters be in this compartment or elsewhere along the line?

From here water should go into the skimmer, then the reactors?

I know the skimmer calls for a pump, but i'm unclear if the draw from the return is handling this or is it a separate pump?

Once the water has passed through all this filtration equipment is when it ends up in the 'fuge correct?

'Fuge goes into bubble trap. Dosing lines can pump into the trap area?

Trap goes to return, return goes back up to the display.

Help a fellow out?

First off, I see you're a new member, so Welcome to R2R!!

#WelcometoR2R

The heater can be pretty much anywhere in the system. Most commonly it's put either by the filter sock or in the return pump chamber (any high flow spot). Then to the skimmer, which has its own pump. Then any reactors you may want which can either A. be ran by their own pump or B. be ran off of a manifold powered by your return pump. Next would be your fuge if you want to utilize macro algae to remove unwanted nutrients from your water. Dosing lines can be anywhere in the system, usually by the return pump or any high flow area. Then your return pump back up to the display

 

[vicegripjim]

First off, I see you're a new member, so Welcome to R2R!!

#WelcometoR2R

The heater can be pretty much anywhere in the system. Most commonly it's put either by the filter sock or in the return pump chamber (any high flow spot). Then to the skimmer, which has its own pump. Then any reactors you may want which can either A. be ran by their own pump or B. be ran off of a manifold powered by your return pump. Next would be your fuge if you want to utilize macro algae to remove unwanted nutrients from your water. Dosing lines can be anywhere in the system, usually by the return pump or any high flow area. Then your return pump back up to the display

That's helping a lot actually.

So assuming I have the right height for the skimmer, I could have it in the same compartment as where the socks are then? After that I assume the water spills into a new area for the reactors where their own little pumps do their thing (I'm pretty sure size wise I won't be able to do a manifold setup) , and then spills into the fuge, then the bubble trap, and finally the return?

 

[laverda]

Your skimmer can be in with the filter socks. The reactors do not need a separate chamber. I think many of the sumps on the market are more complicated than they need to be. They have more baffles then needed making it harder to fit equipment and the Refugium smaller than it could be otherwise.
Having the drain feed into a separate area that feeds the filter socks makes it much easier to clean the filter socks. It does not need to be very large, just a little bigger then you drain lines. Sadly my sump does not have that and I have to move the drain hoses to change the socks. It is not a big deal but would be much easier if I did not have to.

 

[Redleg]

I'm building a sump now with no skimmer andno permanent sock. But I am making my first chamber large enough for both. Single baffle into fuge. 3 baffle bubble trap into the return. This is going to leave me the largest refugium space possible.

 

[JoshH]

(I'm pretty sure size wise I won't be able to do a manifold setup)

What makes you think that you won't be able to do the manifold size wise? Manifolds don't exactly take up a TON of space as long as you plan them appropriately.

 

[George Lopez]

Remember you can always make a stand for your skimmer for height adjustment. If you make the first chamber to match your required height you will have a shallow fuge

 

[vicegripjim]

What makes you think that you won't be able to do the manifold size wise? Manifolds don't exactly take up a TON of space as long as you plan them appropriately.

Because I had a weird preconception of what a manifold was in this context. After poking around I don't see why I couldn't, though I'm not sure i follow the logic.
If I'm seeing this right, essentially I need to use a more powerful return pump, and T off the return line. That T off then has additional T offs (often times a spare or two) for the reactors, with ball valves to cut the supply to the reactor for maintenance (or gates, gate seems good for the GFO reactor). Reactor outputs then go... back into the sump? Is there an optimal dump location? This strikes me as inefficient to cleaning the whole flow of water but I guess it balances out eventually?

 

[JoshH]

Because I had a weird preconception of what a manifold was in this context. After poking around I don't see why I couldn't, though I'm not sure i follow the logic.
If I'm seeing this right, essentially I need to use a more powerful return pump, and T off the return line. That T off then has additional T offs (often times a spare or two) for the reactors, with ball valves to cut the supply to the reactor for maintenance (or gates, gate seems good for the GFO reactor). Reactor outputs then go... back into the sump? Is there an optimal dump location? This strikes me as inefficient to cleaning the whole flow of water but I guess it balances out eventually?

I guess I should have phrased my question a little differently, you had said you wanted to avoid using a manifold for your reactors which would mean you would have to do one of two things. Either run the reactors in series off a pump or T'd off your return, or run them on individual pumps. The reactors still typically dump back into the sump, either just before or in the return chamber itself. The advantage to a manifold is you can If you would like, run off the return pump or it's own pump to feed multiple reactors. You can shut off and maintain reactors at separate times while keeping the other ones running. You can adjust the flow individually to each reactor which has huge advantages when it comes to different media as you mentioned. I use mine for faster water changes with an extra outlet, really the possibilities are numerous. And it all balances out in the end, your skimmer works off the same principle being fed with its own pump.

 

[wesman42]

Not a hijack -- I am curious if reactors are completely necessary? I feel like this might be going too in-depth but I figured I'd ask.

 

[Skydvr]

I wouldn't put the heaters in the pump section, or any other section that has the potenial for the water level to drop and expose the heaters to air.

Reactors are not necessary, it really depends on how you wan to run your filtration system.

Placing the reactor before or after the skimmer feed really depends on what you are running in the reactor. Something like bio-pellets should typically go before the skimmer unless you are considering the bacteria in the effluent as a potential food source.

 

[Luno]

What you need to do when planning a sump basic thoughts.

- know the total size of your sump, how big can you fit and what other equipment may you want below there allow a little room for an ato and other equipment under the stand.

- once you know this decide what equipment and filtration you want to run, skimmer, refugium, reactors, heaters, dosers everything. When you know the equipment you can plan how it will fit in, how big each section will need to be. As a general rule refugiums are minimal 10% of display volume. And always leave a little extra room say your skimmer compartment than what you need as you may upgrade in the future.

- I plan my flow according to my equipment, this has been pointed out to me as an old way of thinking but still true for somethings. For instance a chiller or a uv sterilizer will usually be plumbed from the return and will need to have a specific flow through it to work effectively. Your return will dictate your flow and a gate valve on your drain line will fine tune a syphon according to it.

- baffle heights will somewhat depend on equipment like skimmer or as previously mentioned you can raise a skimmer with a stand. Make sure you allow your return and rest of your sump to accommodate backflow from your display if the event may occur.

- the rest is really up to you there is many different ways to set things up. You may decide to have say reactors on their own pumps or be feed from a manifold. The only thing seen as you say reactor is if you decide to use a biopellet reactor the effluent should be either plumbed into the skimmer or discharged as close to the skimmer intake as possible.

 

[vicegripjim]

Thanks for the pointers everyone. I think I have a handle on it now and just need to figure out the layout now.