Help with compatibility of next couple fish

[Glasswalker]

So tank is coming along well, have a pair of clowns that are acting like they are soon to spawn (true perculas, male about 2", female just under 3"), also an exquisite firefish about to be added from QT. Also 2 skunk cleaner shrimp, hammer coral, green star polyp, rock/flower anemone, porcelain crab, one scarlet hermit, and a bunch of small blue leg hermits, and various snails. Also an indica red sea star.

Planning to add much more coral over time, but thinking of our next couple fish purchases...

We definitely aren't thinking all of this, just the list of options. But would love feedback on what will be compatible with what we have, and fit in my 80g system 48" long DT.

"Pretty fish" (I'd like to get one of these as a cornerstone of showpiece):

• Leopard wrasse
• Mandarin
• Marine Betta
• Tamarin wrasse

Pest control: would like to get one of these:

• Canary wrasse
• Melanurus wrasse
• Open to other suggestions here

Other general ideas (one or more of these):

• Cardinals
• Chromis
• Royal gramma
• Flame hawkish

Finally am definitely planning on getting one of either kole tang, or a white tail bristletooth. Once I can find one.

My main concerns:

• Will it eat my inverts (primarily concerned with porcelain and scarlet hermit, cleaner shrimp, and sea star)
• Will it stress/eat/kill my existing fish
• Safe with LPS, softies, and anemones
• Anything else special to consider?

Any feedback on this list, suggestions of combos that will work from my various lists, and suggestions on sequencing (which to get first, which should come later)?

Also any suggestions/additions and general feedback is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[eatbreakfast]

So tank is coming along well, have a pair of clowns that are acting like they are soon to spawn (true perculas, male about 2", female just under 3"), also an exquisite firefish about to be added from QT. Also 2 skunk cleaner shrimp, hammer coral, green star polyp, rock/flower anemone, porcelain crab, one scarlet hermit, and a bunch of small blue leg hermits, and various snails. Also an indica red sea star.

Planning to add much more coral over time, but thinking of our next couple fish purchases...

We definitely aren't thinking all of this, just the list of options. But would love feedback on what will be compatible with what we have, and fit in my 80g system 48" long DT.

"Pretty fish" (I'd like to get one of these as a cornerstone of showpiece):

• Leopard wrasse
• Mandarin
• Marine Betta
• Tamarin wrasse

Pest control: would like to get one of these:

• Canary wrasse
• Melanurus wrasse
• Open to other suggestions here

Other general ideas (one or more of these):

• Cardinals
• Chromis
• Royal gramma
• Flame hawkish

Finally am definitely planning on getting one of either kole tang, or a white tail bristletooth. Once I can find one.

My main concerns:

• Will it eat my inverts (primarily concerned with porcelain and scarlet hermit, cleaner shrimp, and sea star)
• Will it stress/eat/kill my existing fish
• Safe with LPS, softies, and anemones
• Anything else special to consider?

Any feedback on this list, suggestions of combos that will work from my various lists, and suggestions on sequencing (which to get first, which should come later)?

Also any suggestions/additions and general feedback is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

I like a lot of the fish on your list, some of my personal favorites.

From the centerpiece list, all but the mandarin has the potential to eat your porcelain crab, though the sizes that they are offered for sale shouldn't be too much of an issue to any existing inverts, though as they mature adding small inverts may be problematic. The wrasses here will also help control pests.

The pest control options would be similar to the above fish, in that they will probably be safe with existing inverts, but in the future there may be issues, though the canary wrasse is generally safer with inverts.

Any wrasses that eat pests also eat pods, and will provide competition to the mandarin, it can be done, but also needs to be accounted for.

The flame hawk has the same caveats as the wrasses and marine betta, probably safe with existing inverts, but may eat them in the future.

Just because they have the potential to eat inverts doesn't mean they will. I currently have 2 marine bettas and a bunch of wrasses with skunk and blood cleaners in the same sized tank as you're considering.

Any of the other possible fish won't have to much of an issue.

Other possibilities include fairy and flasher wrasses, zebra or scissortail dartfish, purple tilefish.

I do recommend a screen top, as there is a lot of potential for jumping.

 

[Lenny_S]

As far as the pretty fish go, my personal opinion is wrasses are usually a solid fish, Mandarin and Marine Betta can sometimes be difficult to feed... The Marine Betta is also mostly nocturnal, so it may not be seen all that much in a reef tank with bright lights. Have a look at some of the Genicanthus species of angelfish, I have a Bellus and a Masked Swallowtail and they are super easy, and out in all areas of the tank all day. Neither get very large, so they would work for your tank.
I'd also look at adding a nice group of shoaling fish, my personal favorite and what I have is a group of Zebra Bar Dartfish (Gobies). I'd suggest a minimum of 5. And these do need a good top on the tank.
Out of the tangs you listed I have a Kole, model citizen, I don't know much about the white tail bristletooth other than they are expensive.
Hope this helps.

 

[4FordFamily]

I like a lot of the fish on your list, some of my personal favorites.

From the centerpiece list, all but the mandarin has the potential to eat your porcelain crab, though the sizes that they are offered for sale shouldn't be too much of an issue to any existing inverts, though as they mature adding small inverts may be problematic. The wrasses here will also help control pests.

The pest control options would be similar to the above fish, in that they will probably be safe with existing inverts, but in the future there may be issues, though the canary wrasse is generally safer with inverts.

Any wrasses that eat pests also eat pods, and will provide competition to the mandarin, it can be done, but also needs to be accounted for.

The flame hawk has the same caveats as the wrasses and marine betta, probably safe with existing inverts, but may eat them in the future.

Just because they have the potential to eat inverts doesn't mean they will. I currently have 2 marine bettas and a bunch of wrasses with skunk and blood cleaners in the same sized tank as you're considering.

Any of the other possible fish won't have to much of an issue.

Other possibilities include fairy and flasher wrasses, zebra or scissortail dartfish, purple tilefish.

I do recommend a screen top, as there is a lot of potential for jumping.

X2. Beat me again! I will also add that a lone leopard wrasse is a struggle for most hobbyists

 

[Glasswalker]

Thanks everyone for your feedback/input so far! It's really appreciated. My Wife and I are relatively new to the hobby, and want to be careful not to make any really bad choices. It's one thing if we lose a fish or something due to circumstances beyond our control, but if we make a bad choice to add something new, and it results in the death of one of our "new friends" it would be upsetting.

I like a lot of the fish on your list, some of my personal favorites.

Thanks! My wife and I have spent a fair bit of time hitting LFS, seeing things we like, researching them, looking at compatibility, trying to identify our "ideal" tank population... But to some degree outside of hard factual research, nothing is as important as anecdotal experience from people who have possibly kept these fish to know their quirks, and specifics.

From the centerpiece list, all but the mandarin has the potential to eat your porcelain crab, though the sizes that they are offered for sale shouldn't be too much of an issue to any existing inverts, though as they mature adding small inverts may be problematic. The wrasses here will also help control pests.

Excellent (about the wrasses on this list doing pest control). That's one I wasn't sure about, and couldn't seem to find anywhere...
Really you think the porcelain is at risk? Based on the size of fish (for example the Yellowtail Tamarin at my LFS is about 6" long, and his mouth is only like 1/4" at most, head about 1" diameter). My porcelain is like 1" diameter body, with inch long legs (so balled up he's just over an inch diameter, extended legs he's like nearly 3"). I figured he's too big for them to eat. But I was concerned about them attacking/harassing him. Will they actually still eat him at that size ratio? (because as I stated in my original post, the porcelain is high priority, he's one of my Wife's favorite critters).

the canary wrasse is generally safer with inverts.

Yeah, and I like them, size wise, and bright colors. So I'm leaning this direction for a pest controller. My LFS had also suggested Possum Wrasses as being very invert safe and still doing some pest control, but from what I've read they don't really do much pest control (same thing I've heard about the fairy wrasses, as they look awesome, but from what I understand they won't deal with pests other than eating pods and super small stuff).

Any wrasses that eat pests also eat pods, and will provide competition to the mandarin, it can be done, but also needs to be accounted for.

Yup, I'm aware of this, I've got a healthy pod population in lots of live rock (about 60lb in DT, and another 10-15 of rubble in the fuge). Fuge has a ton of pods... That said I'm sure a wrasse + mandarin will quickly decimate that population, so if I get a mandarin I would have to insist on one that's already trained to eat prepared food.

The flame hawk has the same caveats as the wrasses and marine betta, probably safe with existing inverts, but may eat them in the future.

Oh, I hadn't realized this... The one we saw in the store was quite small, and the little bit of research I saw only really said "small shrimp" may be at risk... (and I didn't think the cleaners counted as "small") lol.
Thanks for this extra info. Definitely good to know.

Just because they have the potential to eat inverts doesn't mean they will. I currently have 2 marine bettas and a bunch of wrasses with skunk and blood cleaners in the same sized tank as you're considering.

This is good info too... We really love the look of the Marine Betta... But our main concern is he's quite large (the one at LFS is prob 6" long). And we were actually concerned more for our small fish in that case. Firefish specifically, as he's about "food size". Also from what I've heard the presence of a betta will potentially stress the other more docile fish, such as the clowns, as they know he's a predator and will be afraid of him. Don't want an environment that's stressful for my fish.

Other possibilities include fairy and flasher wrasses, zebra or scissortail dartfish, purple tilefish.

Awesome! thanks! will look these up!

I do recommend a screen top, as there is a lot of potential for jumping.

Already in the works (firefish is a jumper too, he's not in DT yet, but he'll come out of my friends QT in another couple weeks, and screen lid will be done for both my QT and DT before then

As far as the pretty fish go, my personal opinion is wrasses are usually a solid fish, Mandarin and Marine Betta can sometimes be difficult to feed... The Marine Betta is also mostly nocturnal, so it may not be seen all that much in a reef tank with bright lights.

Not too worried about the nocturnal thing. We have a fairly long moon/ramp-down cycle on our lights, and lots of viewing options during that time period. Also our aquascaping is such that there are shaded caves, but most are visible/viewable from the front.

Have a look at some of the Genicanthus species of angelfish, I have a Bellus and a Masked Swallowtail and they are super easy, and out in all areas of the tank all day. Neither get very large, so they would work for your tank.
I'd also look at adding a nice group of shoaling fish, my personal favorite and what I have is a group of Zebra Bar Dartfish (Gobies). I'd suggest a minimum of 5. And these do need a good top on the tank.

Awesome! Thanks for all the suggestions! will definitely look into all of these. I had thought about a group of shoaling fish, though isn't my tank a bit small for them to actually demonstrate any shoaling behavior?

Out of the tangs you listed I have a Kole, model citizen, I don't know much about the white tail bristletooth other than they are expensive.
Hope this helps.

Yeah, my friend has a Kole, and it's an awesome fish. Huge personality and as you said well behaved. Only reason I don't jump on a Kole is:
White tail bristletooth is a very similar fish, but much brighter, and more vivid. Could take the "centerpiece" spot... Also didn't want to "copy" my friend and get a Kole lol... But if I can't find a reasonably priced whitetail, I'll fall back on the Kole for sure (yeah from what I've seen they are expensive... Though one of the LFS in my area occasionally gets them in and they sell them for a very reasonable price when they do, they tend to get a mix of random fish with each order, they never know until they arrive, so when one randomly comes in like that they sell it for a much more reasonable price (like $100 - $150) but if you special order it, it ends up being $200 - $400 depending on several factors (Which is more inline with prices in online dealers). Unfortunately online is hard for me as I'm in Canada, and I don't know many places that ship fish in Canada.

X2. Beat me again! I will also add that a lone leopard wrasse is a struggle for most hobbyists

Very good to know, I didn't realize this. I likely wouldn't get a pair as it would consume much of my bioload budget (I think)... And I'd rather side with a bit more diversity... Can you elaborate a bit on why this is more difficult? Do they not do well without a mate?

Anyway, thanks again everyone! And keep the feedback rolling in!

 

[Salty1962]

You can't go wrong with fairy, tamarin (if you can find them), or flasher wrasses. As mentioned, leopards can be very iffy, hard to get eating. Also as mentioned, a complete screen top is essential for wrasses. They are jumpers. None of my wrasses take a notice to my crabs or shrimp. Tamarin has cleaned me out of pods and mysis so these are, in my opinion, necessary to get them going on what you feed your tank. Now mine eat anything I put in the tank.

 

[eatbreakfast]

Thanks everyone for your feedback/input so far! It's really appreciated. My Wife and I are relatively new to the hobby, and want to be careful not to make any really bad choices. It's one thing if we lose a fish or something due to circumstances beyond our control, but if we make a bad choice to add something new, and it results in the death of one of our "new friends" it would be upsetting.


Thanks! My wife and I have spent a fair bit of time hitting LFS, seeing things we like, researching them, looking at compatibility, trying to identify our "ideal" tank population... But to some degree outside of hard factual research, nothing is as important as anecdotal experience from people who have possibly kept these fish to know their quirks, and specifics.


Excellent (about the wrasses on this list doing pest control). That's one I wasn't sure about, and couldn't seem to find anywhere...
Really you think the porcelain is at risk? Based on the size of fish (for example the Yellowtail Tamarin at my LFS is about 6" long, and his mouth is only like 1/4" at most, head about 1" diameter). My porcelain is like 1" diameter body, with inch long legs (so balled up he's just over an inch diameter, extended legs he's like nearly 3"). I figured he's too big for them to eat. But I was concerned about them attacking/harassing him. Will they actually still eat him at that size ratio? (because as I stated in my original post, the porcelain is high priority, he's one of my Wife's favorite critters).



Yeah, and I like them, size wise, and bright colors. So I'm leaning this direction for a pest controller. My LFS had also suggested Possum Wrasses as being very invert safe and still doing some pest control, but from what I've read they don't really do much pest control (same thing I've heard about the fairy wrasses, as they look awesome, but from what I understand they won't deal with pests other than eating pods and super small stuff).


Yup, I'm aware of this, I've got a healthy pod population in lots of live rock (about 60lb in DT, and another 10-15 of rubble in the fuge). Fuge has a ton of pods... That said I'm sure a wrasse + mandarin will quickly decimate that population, so if I get a mandarin I would have to insist on one that's already trained to eat prepared food.


Oh, I hadn't realized this... The one we saw in the store was quite small, and the little bit of research I saw only really said "small shrimp" may be at risk... (and I didn't think the cleaners counted as "small") lol.
Thanks for this extra info. Definitely good to know.


This is good info too... We really love the look of the Marine Betta... But our main concern is he's quite large (the one at LFS is prob 6" long). And we were actually concerned more for our small fish in that case. Firefish specifically, as he's about "food size". Also from what I've heard the presence of a betta will potentially stress the other more docile fish, such as the clowns, as they know he's a predator and will be afraid of him. Don't want an environment that's stressful for my fish.


Awesome! thanks! will look these up!


Already in the works (firefish is a jumper too, he's not in DT yet, but he'll come out of my friends QT in another couple weeks, and screen lid will be done for both my QT and DT before then


Not too worried about the nocturnal thing. We have a fairly long moon/ramp-down cycle on our lights, and lots of viewing options during that time period. Also our aquascaping is such that there are shaded caves, but most are visible/viewable from the front.


Awesome! Thanks for all the suggestions! will definitely look into all of these. I had thought about a group of shoaling fish, though isn't my tank a bit small for them to actually demonstrate any shoaling behavior?


Yeah, my friend has a Kole, and it's an awesome fish. Huge personality and as you said well behaved. Only reason I don't jump on a Kole is:
White tail bristletooth is a very similar fish, but much brighter, and more vivid. Could take the "centerpiece" spot... Also didn't want to "copy" my friend and get a Kole lol... But if I can't find a reasonably priced whitetail, I'll fall back on the Kole for sure (yeah from what I've seen they are expensive... Though one of the LFS in my area occasionally gets them in and they sell them for a very reasonable price when they do, they tend to get a mix of random fish with each order, they never know until they arrive, so when one randomly comes in like that they sell it for a much more reasonable price (like $100 - $150) but if you special order it, it ends up being $200 - $400 depending on several factors (Which is more inline with prices in online dealers). Unfortunately online is hard for me as I'm in Canada, and I don't know many places that ship fish in Canada.


Very good to know, I didn't realize this. I likely wouldn't get a pair as it would consume much of my bioload budget (I think)... And I'd rather side with a bit more diversity... Can you elaborate a bit on why this is more difficult? Do they not do well without a mate?

Anyway, thanks again everyone! And keep the feedback rolling in!

Kudos on how well you used multi quote.

The tamarin is capable of picking up the crab and breaking it to manageable sizes. It probably won't, but it is capable of it.

I have never had a problem keeping a flme hawk with shrimp, but others have reported it.

Keep on the lookout for a baby marine betta, they are sometimes available. A marine betta is unlikely to eat a firefish. They are much more specialized at eating shrimp.

Dartfish will shoal in your sized tank.