Help with custom Red Sea drain

[Brian1f1]

Hi,
I have my reefer plumbed into my basement. Yesterday the main drain line started having a steady stream of bubbles, and I don’t believe it has had this before. This is occurring regardless of the water level in the sump (e.g. even over the emergent drain). I thought this mean my line must have a leak, so yesterday I went nuts looking for it (spa flex tube, inside finished walls, and over a drop ceiling). I couldn’t find anything. Now I think it might be coming from where I glued the dial assembly to the drain line, but I can’t tell. My first question is do the bubbles mean there is a leak? I thought they must? And if so, is it possible for the leak to be sucking air a steady stream of air like that but not be leaking a good bit? I would have thought it would be, but I’m no plumber. Thanks!

This shows the air out of the one inch line. Those bubbles are a steady stream.

 

[foshizzle]

Need some more info on your overflow is set up. I guess this a full siphon line and youre 100% sure air is not getting in from overflow?

 

[Brian1f1]

Need some more info on your overflow is set up. I guess this a full siphon line and youre 100% sure air is not getting in from overflow?

Yeah, I use the Red Sea hardware to dial in the drain speed. It’s a bean animal style, I believe. No air is being suctioned at the overflow. I’m thinking this means there has to be a leak sucking air, but is that possible without it leaking a good bit of water at the same site?

 

[OriginalUserName]

Just bubbles or is it also gurgling etc.?

 

[foshizzle]

I assume water velocity is pretty high so I think the line could suck air through a pinhole via venturi effect without leaking water. I think it's also possible to form bubbles in the line via cavitation from high water velocity rather than outside air being introduced into the line.

 

[P-Dub]

Air is likely somehow entering in at the overflow. If it were anywhere else, water pressure alone would likely cause a leak due to pressure. Air is venturing in prior to the pressure of the water being overflowed. Finding that pressure point and where it is entering is the project. If you are not getting any residual noise that is bothering you, what is your greatest concern with the air entering? A Bean Animal is as likely to draw air as any other overflow design when the drain tube has a vent at the top as the Bean should. Another issue is that the pump has changed speed, generally slower. This can happen over time and can affect the overall water level in the overflow box causing air to possibly enter into the drain line.

 

[Brian1f1]

Just bubbles or is it also gurgling etc.?

It seems to be a relatively steady stream.

 

[Brian1f1]

I assume water velocity is pretty high so I think the line could suck air through a pinhole via venturi effect without leaking water. I think it's also possible to form bubbles in the line via cavitation from high water velocity rather than outside air being introduced into the line.

Ok. I think it’s new, and the velocity isn’t particularly high, I don’t think, so I’m leaning towards the pin hole idea.

 

[Brian1f1]

Air is likely somehow entering in at the overflow. If it were anywhere else, water pressure alone would likely cause a leak due to pressure. Air is venturing in prior to the pressure of the water being overflowed. Finding that pressure point and where it is entering is the project. If you are not getting any residual noise that is bothering you, what is your greatest concern with the air entering? A Bean Animal is as likely to draw air as any other overflow design when the drain tube has a vent at the top as the Bean should. Another issue is that the pump has changed speed, generally slower. This can happen over time and can affect the overall water level in the overflow box causing air to possibly enter into the drain line.

I guess I don’t understand exactly what you mean by entering at the overflow? When you say the drain tube itself is vented, do you mean it could be drawing air by design? I do hear a faint noise that may be related under the cabinet, it’s not a big deal. As far as being due to the pump changing, I can dial in the overflow level with the Red Sea valve I incorporated into the plumbing, it’s not due to a low water level (indeed, it’s happening even when the water level is over the emergency drain pipe).

My greatest concern, well, that it’s representative of a concealed small but problematic leak within my walls or ceiling. Secondary to that, is that it seems to have recently developed, and I’m hoping it’s not a sign of some connection or aspect of the plumbing beginning to fail/come apart. Basically, it’s a change I can’t pinpoint and had assumed meant bad things bc it’s not coming from a low water level in the overflow box. Perhaps I was wrong. I might try some silicone grease on the connections near the drain and dial.

Thanks for all the valuable input so far!

 

[P-Dub]

I guess I don’t understand exactly what you mean by entering at the overflow? When you say the drain tube itself is vented, do you mean it could be drawing air by design? I do hear a faint noise that may be related under the cabinet, it’s not a big deal. As far as being due to the pump changing, I can dial in the overflow level with the Red Sea valve I incorporated into the plumbing, it’s not due to a low water level (indeed, it’s happening even when the water level is over the emergency drain pipe).

My greatest concern, well, that it’s representative of a concealed small but problematic leak within my walls or ceiling. Secondary to that, is that it seems to have recently developed, and I’m hoping it’s not a sign of some connection or aspect of the plumbing beginning to fail/come apart. Basically, it’s a change I can’t pinpoint and had assumed meant bad things bc it’s not coming from a low water level in the overflow box. Perhaps I was wrong. I might try some silicone grease on the connections near the drain and dial.

Thanks for all the valuable input so far!

Show us a picture of the overflow box.

 

[Brian1f1]

Show us a picture of the overflow box.

Ok. Sorry for the delay.

 

[P-Dub]

Ok. Sorry for the delay.

Hmmm, that's a conundrum. Still no water leaking onto the floor or in your walls I assume? If not I wouldn't worry about it too much. Still, a mystery...

 

[Brian1f1]

Hmmm, that's a conundrum. Still no water leaking onto the floor or in your walls I assume? If not I wouldn't worry about it too much. Still, a mystery...

Still not that I’ve found. I think it might be sucking air right below the box.

 

[P-Dub]

Still not that I’ve found. I think it might be sucking air right below the box.

It is possible but I think it unlikely. The water pressure in the box or in the drain line I think would be greater than and possible venturi. We'll chalk it up to the mysterious universe and the antigravity vortex you have somewhere behind your tank...

 

[P-Dub]

By any chance is the emergency overflow tied into your main drain line or is it a completely independent drain line from the overflow to the sump?

 

[Brian1f1]

By any chance is the emergency overflow tied into your main drain line or is it a completely independent drain line from the overflow to the sump?

Funny you’d ask that, initially it was, and it was a GD disaster. Main drain chugged, garbled, spit, couldn’t get water level stable... had to run a third line after the first two, which was a major PITA.

 

[Brian1f1]

It is possible but I think it unlikely. The water pressure in the box or in the drain line I think would be greater than and possible venturi. We'll chalk it up to the mysterious universe and the antigravity vortex you have somewhere behind your tank...

Guess what my friend, I accidentally discovered it tonight. It is at a fitting right below the box! I think you’ll find how I discovered it interesting, it was a complete stroke of luck. I had the pump off, and just happened to be looking there when I fired it back up. dang thing started a good drop as the water started draining, but when it picked up speed it sucked the drop right back in and then started sucking air. Check out the vid I made to show you.
I think I’m going to squeeze a generous amount of super glow at that point while it’s sucking inward. I’m hoping that will create a plug of sorts. How crazy lucky was that catch? [emoji23]

 

[P-Dub]

Guess what my friend, I accidentally discovered it tonight. It is at a fitting right below the box! I think you’ll find how I discovered it interesting, it was a complete stroke of luck. I had the pump off, and just happened to be looking there when I fired it back up. dang thing started a good drop as the water started draining, but when it picked up speed it sucked the drop right back in and then started sucking air. Check out the vid I made to show you.

I think I’m going to squeeze a generous amount of super glow at that point while it’s sucking inward. I’m hoping that will create a plug of sorts. How crazy lucky was that catch? [emoji23]

Well, I'll be a monkey's uncle! Good lucky detective work there. Never thought there would be enough venturi power to counter the water pressure. I think your fix will work. Keep us posted.

 

[Brian1f1]

Well, I'll be a monkey's uncle! Good lucky detective work there. Never thought there would be enough venturi power to counter the water pressure. I think your fix will work. Keep us posted.

I think it may be because it’s an odd fitting with the hole facing sort of upward on the edge. But idk, I’m a social scientist [emoji23]. I’ll let you know once I get more glue.