Help with hair algae

[Cmack59]

Hi guys, thanks for all the welcomes from everyone!

ok here we go we have had our reefer 350 set up since 1/19 - started with 50 lbs of live rock, everything was going pretty good - added a few fish after the tank cycled, then added a few soft corals Everything was going along fine
Last year about Thanksgiving we started to get hair algae - we went with emerald crabs, and turbo snails and conchs, continued to get worse, got a sea hare - no help LFS said we should change out all the rock that had hair algae on it - which we did In December - with live rock from his shop - then we got Aptasia which I treat every couple of days with Aptasia X - cant get rid of the little buggers - then the hair algae came back with a vengeance - we ordered stacker dry rock which will be in end of next week we are going to take out ALL the rock this time and rebuild the reef.

How to get rid of the hair algae that has invaded our corals?
if we cant keep things under control - DH says we are done with reef keeping
I have attached photos - and bear with me I have no clue what kind of corals we have - DH brings them home and then we can never remember what they are

 

[Reeffraff]

Hi and welcome. What are your current methods of nutrient contol? Generally the first steps in controlling an algae outbreak is adjusting your nutrient input/output methods. Input is the easiest because that is the food and you have 100% control over that. Start by reducing feeding (but don't starve your fish) and if you are currently adding coral food/amino acids stop entirely for the time being. Next, is nutrient output. There are many different ways to achieve this but some of the more common ones are refugiums or algae scrubbers (my preferred method), GFO, carbon dosing etc. Read up on the different methods (many good threads on this fourm about this topic) and choose one or more that best suit your setup. Most importantly, remember that nothing good happens fast in a reef tank and quick fixes (like replacing all your rock) are not likely to yield great long-term results. Hair algae blooms can be very discouraging, but with the proper changes to nutrient input/output, decent clean up crew, manual removal (as much as possible) and some patience, it will be beaten. Just keep at it and good luck!

 

[old salt reefer]

^ What he said, it took awhile for the algae to grow it will take awhile to get rid of it. You can take the coral frags out and pour hydrogen peroxide on them it will kill the GHA. Use the search bar at the top of this page to find out exactly how to do that with out killing your coral.

 

[Cmack59]

Hi and welcome. What are your current methods of nutrient contol? Generally the first steps in controlling an algae outbreak is adjusting your nutrient input/output methods. Input is the easiest because that is the food and you have 100% control over that. Start by reducing feeding (but don't starve your fish) and if you are currently adding coral food/amino acids stop entirely for the time being. Next, is nutrient output. There are many different ways to achieve this but some of the more common ones are refugiums or algae scrubbers (my preferred method), GFO, carbon dosing etc. Read up on the different methods (many good threads on this fourm about this topic) and choose one or more that best suit your setup. Most importantly, remember that nothing good happens fast in a reef tank and quick fixes (like replacing all your rock) are not likely to yield great long-term results. Hair algae blooms can be very discouraging, but with the proper changes to nutrient input/output, decent clean up crew, manual removal (as much as possible) and some patience, it will be beaten. Just keep at it and good luck!

Thank you for your thoughts - what would be considered a good clean-up crew? And we only feed once a day - frozen food - thawed in a little tank water and then added to the tank by a 3ml plastic dropper and only feed for about 3 minutes. - we are using Rod‘s and other frozen foods, Red Sea A&B, R.O.E., Oyster feast and just started reef roids because we are almost out of the A&B
we do have a reactor that currently just has carbon in it - I’ll have to check on an algae scrubber we don’t have one of those - are we over supplementing/feeding?

 

[Cmack59]

^ What he said, it took awhile for the algae to grow it will take awhile to get rid of it. You can take the coral frags out and pour hydrogen peroxide on them it will kill the GHA. Use the search bar at the top of this page to find out exactly how to do that with out killing your coral.

I will check that out thank you

 

[Reeffraff]

Thank you for your thoughts - what would be considered a good clean-up crew? And we only feed once a day - frozen food - thawed in a little tank water and then added to the tank by a 3ml plastic dropper and only feed for about 3 minutes. - we are using Rod‘s and other frozen foods, Red Sea A&B, R.O.E., Oyster feast and just started reef roids because we are almost out of the A&B
we do have a reactor that currently just has carbon in it - I’ll have to check on an algae scrubber we don’t have one of those - are we over supplementing/feeding?

The clean up crew (CUC) you use should depends on the type of algae you have/wish to control. Have you managed to get an ID on the algae in your tank? There are several types of hair algae and several types that look like hair algae, but aren't such as Bryopsis and green turf algae. The latter two are avoided by most CUC species. Have you tried a tuxedo urchin? They tend to eat a very wide variety (but not bryopsis).

In terms of feeding/supplements, I would personally cut everything that isn't fish food until you get the algae under control. Judging by the photos you posted, all of your corals are quite hardy/not demanding and if you are regularly feeding your fish, the corals will get all the nutrients they need. I keep a huge variety of corals and do not add any 'coral foods' to any of my tanks. I feed the fish a mix of frozen foods (enough that they can consume it all in 1 min) and some nori (for the tangs) 2x per day and let the fish waste feed the corals. If you really feel the need to add coral food/supplements, I would wait until the algae is under control and then slowly ramp it back up (but it's probably not necessary unless you end up with too few nutrients).

A carbon reactor will remove some organics but not NO3 of PO4. The most cost effective way to start managing nutrients is to get a 'refugium specific' light (I have use the Kessil H80 with great success on smallish tanks) and grow some Chaetomorpha algae in your sump. There are some great videos on refugiums and common mistakes to avoid with them that BRS TV has put out if you're interested.

 

[kyleinpdx]

I would hazard against removing your rock. I am very much an "ecosystem services" minded guy and that rock is doing you a whole lot more than just growing algae. Swap it out and you'll probably have dino's take the place of the algae, then have the algae come back after you best the dinos.

I would tackle this by significantly ramping up your CUC, for a 90 check into this. WAY cheaper than going through your LFS. Let them go to town for ~3 weeks then reassess. An urchin may be the next move after, maybe conchs, perhaps an algae blenny, it all depends.

 

[Cmack59]

The clean up crew (CUC) you use should depends on the type of algae you have/wish to control. Have you managed to get an ID on the algae in your tank? There are several types of hair algae and several types that look like hair algae, but aren't such as Bryopsis and green turf algae. The latter two are avoided by most CUC species. Have you tried a tuxedo urchin? They tend to eat a very wide variety (but not bryopsis).

In terms of feeding/supplements, I would personally cut everything that isn't fish food until you get the algae under control. Judging by the photos you posted, all of your corals are quite hardy/not demanding and if you are regularly feeding your fish, the corals will get all the nutrients they need. I keep a huge variety of corals and do not add any 'coral foods' to any of my tanks. I feed the fish a mix of frozen foods (enough that they can consume it all in 1 min) and some nori (for the tangs) 2x per day and let the fish waste feed the corals. If you really feel the need to add coral food/supplements, I would wait until the algae is under control and then slowly ramp it back up (but it's probably not necessary unless you end up with too few nutrients).

A carbon reactor will remove some organics but not NO3 of PO4. The most cost effective way to start managing nutrients is to get a 'refugium specific' light (I have use the Kessil H80 with great success on smallish tanks) and grow some Chaetomorpha algae in your sump. There are some great videos on refugiums and common mistakes to avoid with them that BRS TV has put out if you're interested.

DH was concerned that the corals and feather dusters would not be getting enough - so i will have him stop giving the supplements for awhile

 

[Cmack59]

I would hazard against removing your rock. I am very much an "ecosystem services" minded guy and that rock is doing you a whole lot more than just growing algae. Swap it out and you'll probably have dino's take the place of the algae, then have the algae come back after you best the dinos.

I would tackle this by significantly ramping up your CUC, for a 90 check into this. WAY cheaper than going through your LFS. Let them go to town for ~3 weeks then reassess. An urchin may be the next move after, maybe conchs, perhaps an algae blenny, it all depends.

Thanks for the info - we did just get 3 conchs over the weekend - i am going to check out the CUC you recommended - thanks for the info

 

[kyleinpdx]

Thanks for the info - we did just get 3 conchs over the weekend - i am going to check out the CUC you recommended - thanks for the info

I know it seems spendy for some snails, but that $75 kit would easily be 200 at my LFS, many of the snails you see for 1.99, 2.99 at your LFS are .30, .50, .75 from reef cleaners. They'll be well packaged and you typically get more than you pay for.

 

[Reeffraff]

I should also mention that if you are running a protein skimmer, carbon dosing (either vodka/vinegar/nopox) could also be an inexpensive, easy way to start managing nutrients. Have you measured your NO3 and PO4 levels? You could try running some GFO in your carbon reactor as well.

 

[Reeffraff]

CUCs can be great for algae management but just keep in mind that they don't actually get at root of the problem that caused the algae to grow out of control in the first place.

 

[Cmack59]

I should also mention that if you are running a protein skimmer, carbon dosing (either vodka/vinegar/nopox) could also be an inexpensive, easy way to start managing nutrients. Have you measured your NO3 and PO4 levels? You could try running some GFO in your carbon reactor as well.

Last Friday was the last time I ran levels and this is what we had:
Ph 8.0, ammonia and nitrite 0, nitrate 25, calcium 440, kh 9.3, magnesium 1365
We do have a system for RO water

 

[Cmack59]

We have been using Red Sea no3po4 and put in 6ml daily is that not enough? Their directions are not the best for us old folks to figure out some times - we did try sugar didn’t make much difference

 

[Reeffraff]

We have been using Red Sea no3po4 and put in 6ml daily is that not enough? Their directions are not the best for us old folks to figure out some times - we did try sugar didn’t make much difference

Your dosing level is in line with the manufacturer recommend amount. I would keep dosing at this level but manage food input more strictly and see what happens with your nutrients. If they still aren't shifting downwards after a week or two, you could bump up the dose by 50%. Do you have a low range PO4 test kit? In many cases managing PO4 levels can have better results than focusing on NO3.

 

[Cmack59]

Your dosing level is in line with the manufacturer recommend amount. I would keep dosing at this level but manage food input more strictly and see what happens with your nutrients. If they still aren't shifting downwards after a week or two, you could bump up the dose by 50%. Do you have a low range PO4 test kit? In many cases managing PO4 levels can have better results than focusing on NO3.

I am using the salifert tests

 

[Reeffragger]

I wouldnt bother chasing numbers or using gfo or whatnot. Get some sea urchins the pink pin cushions are the best and they dont eat corals unlike the others. Tons of turbo snails.. some hermits. And get yourself a foxface and a tang that grazes on algae. Take a toothbrush and get the long stuff off as the snails dont touch it when its really long.. and let the cleanup crew do the rest. 350l is what 90g plenty big for a foxface and a smaller tang.

Thats what i did in my 135g.. got 4 tangs a foxface. Tons of turbos and seaurchins and the hair algae that does grow only gets mm in size before its eaten.

Better doing this IMO then chasing numbers

 

[Cmack59]

I wouldnt bother chasing numbers or using gfo or whatnot. Get some sea urchins the pink pin cushions are the best and they dont eat corals unlike the others. Tons of turbo snails.. some hermits. And get yourself a foxface and a tang that grazes on algae. Take a toothbrush and get the long stuff off as the snails dont touch it when its really long.. and let the cleanup crew do the rest. 350l is what 90g plenty big for a foxface and a smaller tang.

Thats what i did in my 135g.. got 4 tangs a foxface. Tons of turbos and seaurchins and the hair algae that does grow only gets mm in size before its eaten.

Better doing this IMO then chasing numbers

I get so tired of chasing numbers

I wouldnt bother chasing numbers or using gfo or whatnot. Get some sea urchins the pink pin cushions are the best and they dont eat corals unlike the others. Tons of turbo snails.. some hermits. And get yourself a foxface and a tang that grazes on algae. Take a toothbrush and get the long stuff off as the snails dont touch it when its really long.. and let the cleanup crew do the rest. 350l is what 90g plenty big for a foxface and a smaller tang.

Thats what i did in my 135g.. got 4 tangs a foxface. Tons of turbos and seaurchins and the hair algae that does grow only gets mm in size before its eaten.

Better doing this IMO then chasing numbers

Thank you for the info - currently we have Japanese Swallowtail, Tomini, Six-line Wrasse, Yellow Diamond Goby, Mocha Clownfish and 1 Cleaner Shrimp

 

[jeffchapok]

I agree with the CUC idea, but most of them won't eat GHA once it gets too long. So pull out what you can by hand. I like to start a small hose siphoning, then pinch the GHA between the end of the hose and my finger to pull it off. Let go and SWOOSH, out it goes.

Then the CUC will attack whatever remains attached to the rock. For the algae it tight spots that you can't reach, turn off all circulation and hit it with a shot of boiling RODI water from a turkey baster. Just be careful not to get too close to anything you don't want to kill, two inches or so is perfectly safe. When the GHA turns bright green, you'll know you got it. And my CUC go crazy over cooked GHA. Even my clown pick at it.

Boiling water works on aiptasia too. When I've used it, they are gone instantly and I've never had any return.

All this said, your tank doesn't really look too bad to me. Keep in mind that algae is a natural component of reefs in nature. I don't obsess over it until it starts to encroach on corals and affect their growth.

 

[Reeffragger]

I get so tired of chasing numbers

Thank you for the info - currently we have Japanese Swallowtail, Tomini, Six-line Wrasse, Yellow Diamond Goby, Mocha Clownfish and 1 Cleaner Shrimp

Yea you dont have many fish. Get a foxface and a yellow tang or some other grazing tang. Get like 3 or so sea urchins 10+ turbos.. Sea urchins the pink pin cushions you find in petco for like 10$ will eat the algae to the rock.. youll see white trails on your rocks lol. Snails again will eat it too but you gatta get it all down in size. Hense tooth brushing the rocks until they can control it. Foxface.tang will take awhile to acclimate before they start eating the algae.. but my foxface when i had long hair algae ate it like spagettie.

Now i cant get algae to grow fast enough so i have to give my urchins seaweed by grabbing em and putting them on a sheet..