Help with Ich treatment.

[PicassoDan]

The LFS was saying that velvet is rarer than rare, and since I had signs of infection since early February then everything should have died by now, plus the fish had been showing signs of ich such as flashing against the sand and live rock.

Yeah, most likely ich.

 

[Mariette]

This is why I would not recommend copper treatment. Tank Transfer Method is easy.

Do you have a link to a good how to? Always good to keep in the back pocket. I’ve gotten conflicting advice about that too

 

[Deiblerj]

There’s no medicated food that is going to treat velvet long enough to wait for your return, unfortunately.

I’m sorry the LFS is not being super helpful, I would start looking at other QT options if you can...

A month fallow isn’t long enough for ich (76 days) OR velvet (6 weeks). Melafix is an herbal remedy meant to boost the immune system/slime coat and doesn’t actually kill anything. Ich-x is malachite green (a copper carbonate), which could actually be useful as a dip or bath to buy you time... but again, wont actually fully eradicate ich. And I still don’t believe this IS ich.

The only time-trusted treatment for ich/ velvet is QT with copper. Or, chloroquine phosphate... but that’s harder to come by.

I really suggest reading the link I’ve posted above.

Is this true about the fallow period? I’ve always read/heard it would kill Ich. Dosing copper can only be done in a QT without messing up your liverock/sand, killing inverts and corals. If there is no host for the ich during the fallow period how would it survive after its lifecycle?

 

[ngoodermuth]

Is this true about the fallow period? I’ve always read/heard it would kill Ich. Dosing copper can only be done in a QT without messing up your liverock/sand, killing inverts and corals. If there is no host for the ich during the fallow period how would it survive after its lifecycle?

A fallow period WILL kill ich, just not a month. It’s too short. The recommended fallow period for ich is 76 days, for velvet is 6-weeks. Sorry to be confusing [emoji4]

 

[Deiblerj]

A fallow period WILL kill ich, just not a month. It’s too short. The recommended fallow period for ich is 76 days, for velvet is 6-weeks. Sorry to be confusing [emoji4]

Ok I see now...yup, definitely read your post wrong haha!! My bad!

 

[Frtdrmrose7]

The LFS was saying that velvet is rarer than rare, and since I had signs of infection since early February then everything should have died by now, plus the fish had been showing signs of ich such as flashing against the sand and live rock.

Velvet is very common these days all you need to do is look through these threads on here unfortunately. Velvet is typically a quick killer so hopefully you do have ich. The only way to eradicate ich is through copper and a 76 fallow period on your display.

 

[Mariette]

Velvet is very common these days all you need to do is look through these threads on here unfortunately. Velvet is typically a quick killer so hopefully you do have ich. The only way to eradicate ich is through copper and a 76 fallow period on your display.

Velvet is not rare. It’s everywhere unfortunately. I’m treating it myself in my DT. Ugh!!!

 

[Frtdrmrose7]

Velvet is not rare. It’s everywhere unfortunately. I’m treating it myself in my DT. Ugh!!!

It actually seems more common than ich these days

 

[Mariette]

It actually seems more common than ich these days

Really? It seems to kill faster but it’s got a much less fallow period requirement than ich so I’m thinking it’s not as bad? I’ve yet to find a cure. Used Medic by polyplab at max dose for max period of 20 days. Nothing died but it bleached some live rock. Shortly after treatment, it’s back. Wrote to them. Said to double the max dose so we’re trying that. So far, no deaths since medic started but also no cure. Do u know of a cure? I can pull inverts of necessary

 

[ngoodermuth]

Not saying your LFS is TRYING to deceive you (also not saying they are not) but I can say for sure that many stores that are not primarily "reef", like pet-stores that just happen to have a saltwater section, tend to not have a very good base knowledge of treating fish diseases. Their expertise ends in what helps them to move fish quickly out of their systems and into our tanks.

If fish get sick...then they can sell you 15 different "reef safe" remedies. If they die, well then you'll come back to buy more fish. Many of them don't know, or care to know, the intricacies of how to cure anything at all beyond reading the labels of the medications they stock, which are often little more than clever marketing hype. Besides that, if it sounds too "hard" they might not be able to sell you the fish in the first place... just something to keep in mind. The truly awesome LFS are few and far between...

 

[ngoodermuth]

Really? It seems to kill faster but it’s got a much less fallow period requirement than ich so I’m thinking it’s not as bad? I’ve yet to find a cure. Used Medic by polyplab at max dose for max period of 20 days. Nothing died but it bleached some live rock. Shortly after treatment, it’s back. Wrote to them. Said to double the max dose so we’re trying that. So far, no deaths since medic started but also no cure. Do u know of a cure? I can pull inverts of necessary

I'm sorry to say, but this is another one of those "hype" products just mentioned above... there currently is no proven "in-tank" eradication treatment for ich or velvet. All of the products that claim to be, are usually just immunity boosters or management tools. Not an actual cure.

 

[Frtdrmrose7]

Really? It seems to kill faster but it’s got a much less fallow period requirement than ich so I’m thinking it’s not as bad? I’ve yet to find a cure. Used Medic by polyplab at max dose for max period of 20 days. Nothing died but it bleached some live rock. Shortly after treatment, it’s back. Wrote to them. Said to double the max dose so we’re trying that. So far, no deaths since medic started but also no cure. Do u know of a cure? I can pull inverts of necessary

That treatment will not eradicate velvet, you either need CP or Copper. CP should be kept at .5 and minimum therapeutic level for cheleted copper like copper power is 1.5ppm with 1.75ppm the targeted range to keep. You can also do a FW dip for some temporary relief of symptoms. You’ll more than likely need to treat in a QT and leave your DT(fishless) for 6 weeks. Doing this will eradicate it from your fish and tank.

 

[Bryce Mazloum]

Not saying your LFS is TRYING to deceive you (also not saying they are not) but I can say for sure that many stores that are not primarily "reef", like pet-stores that just happen to have a saltwater section, tend to not have a very good base knowledge of treating fish diseases. Their expertise ends in what helps them to move fish quickly out of their systems and into our tanks.

If fish get sick...then they can sell you 15 different "reef safe" remedies. If they die, well then you'll come back to buy more fish. Many of them don't know, or care to know, the intricacies of how to cure anything at all beyond reading the labels of the medications they stock, which are often little more than clever marketing hype. Besides that, if it sounds too "hard" they might not be able to sell you the fish in the first place... just something to keep in mind. The truly awesome LFS are few and far between...

I honestly doubt that my LFS is deceiving me, because they are solely a fish store and I've become good friends with all of the employees, one of them even has a degree in marine biology, so I'll stick to my gut and take their word, but I'll still use the information that I got from here.

 

[ngoodermuth]

Like I said, they might not be trying to deceive you... just might not know or care to know more than they have to. Biology degree or not. I hope you'll at least read through the links that have been shared, and I wish you luck

 

[Mariette]

That treatment will not eradicate velvet, you either need CP or Copper. CP should be kept at .5 and minimum therapeutic level for cheleted copper like copper power is 1.5ppm with 1.75ppm the targeted range to keep. You can also do a FW dip for some temporary relief of symptoms. You’ll more than likely need to treat in a QT and leave your DT(fishless) for 6 weeks. Doing this will eradicate it from your fish and tank.

I’ve been afraid of that.

 

[Frtdrmrose7]

I’ve been afraid of that.

I understand you wanting to believe these reef safe treatments your LFS recommend will work but if you research treating velvet you will time and time again find the only real answer is either CP or Copper. I know it’s a little intimidating and a added expense setting up a QT but with the fish distribution system as it is today a QT is needed.

 

[Mariette]

I understand you wanting to believe these reef safe treatments your LFS recommend will work but if you research treating velvet you will time and time again find the only real answer is either CP or Copper. I know it’s a little intimidating and a added expense setting up a QT but with the fish distribution system as it is today a QT is needed.

CP is chilated copper? I have Cupramine. And a running QT set up. Will have to pull the live rock and substrate but that’s no problem. My experience is that it’s difficukt to get an accurate read on copper level and fluctuations kill fish. I’m really afraid to go that route. Medic was actually recommended by a friend who had great results. We’re gonna continue w the cycle, hope for the best, and go w copper if it fails

 

[Frtdrmrose7]

CP is chilated copper? I have Cupramine. And a running QT set up. Will have to pull the live rock and substrate but that’s no problem. My experience is that it’s difficukt to get an accurate read on copper level and fluctuations kill fish. I’m really afraid to go that route. Medic was actually recommended by a friend who had great results. We’re gonna continue w the cycle, hope for the best, and go w copper if it fails

CP is Chloriquine Phosphate (spelling?) Cupramine will work against ich and velvet at .5 a typical example of cheleted copper is Copper Power which is therapeutic at 1.50ppm. I would also recommend the Hanna Copper checker as it makes checking copper levels easy.

Here is a thread with a detailed description of illnesses we encounter. Read through and see what fits.


https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fish-disease-index.247600/

 

[Mariette]

CP is Chloriquine Phosphate (spelling?) Cupramine will work against ich and velvet at .5 a typical example of cheleted copper is Copper Power which is therapeutic at 1.50ppm. I would also recommend the Hanna Copper checker as it makes checking copper levels easy.

Here is a thread with a detailed description of illnesses we encounter. Read through and see what fits.


https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fish-disease-index.247600/

Oh. Glad I asked lol. I’ll have to look into that copper tester. I paid $50 for a copper test kit and it sucks! What a waste of money. Thx for the link. Yup. Velvet. I’m so screwed. I’ve got fish and inverts in DT w Velvet, a fish in QT w Flukes, and a fallow other QT waiting out flukes. Looks like I’ll neer another tank now. Plus I have a freshwater tank. My place is starting to look like my LFS ‍

 

[Frtdrmrose7]

Oh. Glad I asked lol. I’ll have to look into that copper tester. I paid $50 for a copper test kit and it sucks! What a waste of money. Thx for the link. Yup. Velvet. I’m so screwed. I’ve got fish and inverts in DT w Velvet, a fish in QT w Flukes, and a fallow other QT waiting out flukes. Looks like I’ll neer another tank now. Plus I have a freshwater tank. My place is starting to look like my LFS ‍

I feel you! Hit craigslist up for someone else’s failed 20G freshwater setup for $20-30 and you’ll be set (HOB filter, heater, etc)