Help with Metal Halides and T12s

[splitting_lanes]

That’s some serious lighting! MH and T12, I don’t envy your power bill, but it’s gonna look great!

 

[jda]

The IceCap ballasts should have the wiring diagram on them... don't know if anybody covered this already... my apologies if so.

A single VHO T12 will put out the same light as a pair of HO T5s if both are reflected well... in this case, the wattage is nearly the same and so is the output. I would build/make a reflector out of polished aluminum to put over each pair of T12s. In this case, to do T5s, you would need to do pairs of 36" bulbs for each T12 VHO. ...so 8x 36" T5s per side instead of 2x VHO T12s... I would keep the T12. I use T12 VHOs for this purpose... they are available in 6' lengths, bulbs are less expensive to change and I can use 1x bulb instead of 4x 36" T5s.

 

[jda]

If you need to punch down really deep, then check out the Hamilton 10k bulbs and then use bluer VHOs for "looks." The 10k have significantly more PAR than 20k bulbs and might be good for your deeper tank.

10k Hamilton is a white bulb that can pop some colors, but there is not even a slight hint of blue or windex. It is a nice bulb to my eyes, but can look bad during the "ulgy" phases where brown and green algae are prominent, but looks awesome when purple and pink coralline are everywhere.

In any case, a 44" deep tank is no joke, so you will have to do things differently than people who have more typical tank dimensions.

 

[DuckSlayer627]

JDA is correct about the 10K Hamiltons. I have 2 400wt with 2 110wt VHO Actinics on a 120gal 4ft.x2ft.x2ft. and can grow any coral anywhere in the tank. Bulbs are white, not windex colored, and all the corals are very colorful(pretty much all Acro's and a couple of Clams). All of these are run on Ice Cap ballast. I have used Ushio 14k's in the past but I think they are more yellow than the Hamilton 10k's. The Radiums were to blue for me. Maybe because of running them on electronic ballast. I have not used the Hamilton 14k's so I can't comment on the color.

 

[Bpb]

JDA is correct about the 10K Hamiltons. I have 2 400wt with 2 110wt VHO Actinics on a 120gal 4ft.x2ft.x2ft. and can grow any coral anywhere in the tank. Bulbs are white, not windex colored, and all the corals are very colorful(pretty much all Acro's and a couple of Clams). All of these are run on Ice Cap ballast. I have used Ushio 14k's in the past but I think they are more yellow than the Hamilton 10k's. The Radiums were to blue for me. Maybe because of running them on electronic ballast. I have not used the Hamilton 14k's so I can't comment on the color.

hammy 10k would be too much for my tank. My 250 watt 14k at a year old are dropping 1100 par at the surface under the water and over 400 on the sandbed. The bulbs are 16” off the water of a 24” deep tank. It has taken many pieces quite a while to acclimate to such high light levels. Not everything loves it. I prefer the 10-14k color but consider switching to 20k bulbs to see if the par is more manageable. Many acros are getting 6 hours of 700-800 par right now

 

[DuckSlayer627]

hammy 10k would be too much for my tank. My 250 watt 14k at a year old are dropping 1100 par at the surface under the water and over 400 on the sandbed. The bulbs are 16” off the water of a 24” deep tank. It has taken many pieces quite a while to acclimate to such high light levels. Not everything loves it. I prefer the 10-14k color but consider switching to 20k bulbs to see if the par is more manageable. Many acros are getting 6 hours of 700-800 par right now

That's interesting. I've never checked my PAR. I just put the new stuff on the bottom for a couple of weeks then move it where I want it and have never had a problem. I remember back in the late 90's using 400wt Iwasaki 6500k on a 20in. tall tank with the bulbs about 10-12in off the water. Back then we never even heard of acclimation. We would just stick them right where we wanted as soon as we got them and a couple of weeks later they would be growing like weeds.

My bulbs are 10-12in off the water now and run for 7hrs. I will say that when I get frags from some friends that are using LED's most Acro's will definitely change colors. Most for the better but a few not so much. My friends are usually pretty amazed at how colorful their corals look after a couple of months under some intense lighting. I always tell them to turn down the blues and crank up the whites so they can see their corals without looking through windex. But like I said maybe the few that lose some color is because of the intensity/PAR. Maybe I should get a PAR meter and see where I stand.

 

[Bpb]

That's interesting. I've never checked my PAR. I just put the new stuff on the bottom for a couple of weeks then move it where I want it and have never had a problem. I remember back in the late 90's using 400wt Iwasaki 6500k on a 20in. tall tank with the bulbs about 10-12in off the water. Back then we never even heard of acclimation. We would just stick them right where we wanted as soon as we got them and a couple of weeks later they would be growing like weeds.

My bulbs are 10-12in off the water now and run for 7hrs. I will say that when I get frags from some friends that are using LED's most Acro's will definitely change colors. Most for the better but a few not so much. My friends are usually pretty amazed at how colorful their corals look after a couple of months under some intense lighting. I always tell them to turn down the blues and crank up the whites so they can see their corals without looking through windex. But like I said maybe the few that lose some color is because of the intensity/PAR. Maybe I should get a PAR meter and see where I stand.

I don’t bother with acclimation either. Corals go right to their spot.
Difference between now and in the 90’s is reflectors. Lumen bright reflectors weren’t around back then. With wing reflectors or even lumen arcs, the par wouldn’t be near this high. These reflectors are designed to be run 15-24” or so inches off the water and can easily punch 30” down. Helps manage temperatures easier.

 

[DuckSlayer627]

I don’t bother with acclimation either. Corals go right to their spot.
Difference between now and in the 90’s is reflectors. Lumen bright reflectors weren’t around back then. With wing reflectors or even lumen arcs, the par wouldn’t be near this high. These reflectors are designed to be run 15-24” or so inches off the water and can easily punch 30” down. Helps manage temperatures easier.

Very good point.

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

Good point indeed. Over half the light hiting the tank is from the reflector. They make a REALLY big difference. Thats why im excited about my grow hoods. They have an amazingly even spread.

Anywho.. time to go to the hockey game.

 

[Feet4Fish]

Thanks for the advice. I am sticking with the T12. I spoke to Champion Lighting yesterday and they have all sorts of parts that can help me. Also thanks for the heads up the 10k halides!!

 

[Feet4Fish]

Thanks for the advice. I am sticking with the T12. I spoke to Champion Lighting yesterday and they have all sorts of parts that can help me. Also thanks for the heads up the 10k halides!!

The IceCap ballasts should have the wiring diagram on them... don't know if anybody covered this already... my apologies if so.

A single VHO T12 will put out the same light as a pair of HO T5s if both are reflected well... in this case, the wattage is nearly the same and so is the output. I would build/make a reflector out of polished aluminum to put over each pair of T12s. In this case, to do T5s, you would need to do pairs of 36" bulbs for each T12 VHO. ...so 8x 36" T5s per side instead of 2x VHO T12s... I would keep the T12. I use T12 VHOs for this purpose... they are available in 6' lengths, bulbs are less expensive to change and I can use 1x bulb instead of 4x 36" T5s.

 

[C. Eymann]

As much as I do like VHOs, Even if the VHO is internally reflected, I'm pretty sure a T5 in a hogh quality reflector will kick out more PAR.

I wanna say either thegrimreefer or mojo did a test on that a while back.

That being said, aesthetic color wise I'll take an 03 420nm actinic VHO over a actinic T5 all day.
VHO actinics create a pop on the coral that T5 actinic tubes just cant replicate, not sure why.

 

[jda]

It is all about the reflector. If you reflect VHOs, they are the same. If relying on the internal only, then they are less. I tested a bunch of VHOs against a 8 bulb Sunpower with my own Apogee 510.

 

[Feet4Fish]

Could you point me to a good source for reflectors?

It is all about the reflector. If you reflect VHOs, they are the same. If relying on the internal only, then they are less. I tested a bunch of VHOs against a 8 bulb Sunpower with my own Apogee 510.

 

[C. Eymann]

It is all about the reflector. If you reflect VHOs, they are the same. If relying on the internal only, then they are less. I tested a bunch of VHOs against a 8 bulb Sunpower with my own Apogee 510.

Will agree there, vhos internal reflector isn't great an external probolic mirrored reflector can be a game changer.

 

[jda]

You are gonna have to make your own or look for some out of the EU. I have not looked in a while, but they are not easy to get anymore. It is a smart project if you are going to have the lights for a while.

 

[jda]

VHOs on the internal reflector were about 70% as good as a pair of HO T5s in ATI... so not bad, but the reflector brought them up to about the same. The UVL Super Actinic had less PAR than the ATI Actinic, but it also has more spectrum that the PAR meter cannot read. The UVL AquaSun had a LOT of PAR and crushed B+ and C+, but you would expect this with the higher amounts above 500nm. Actinic White was about the same as B+ and C+. In the end, when considering the spectrums, they all seemed like a wash to me... on a good reflector, twice the power on half the bulbs for twice the output.

 

[Feet4Fish]

You are gonna have to make your own or look for some out of the EU. I have not looked in a while, but they are not easy to get anymore. It is a smart project if you are going to have the lights for a while.

I did find these which I could join together and make work. Sounds like a great idea and I yah I you for all your help! Excited about this project!!

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

I would still consider going t5 if you are going to add reflectors and what not. Same output for less input.

You could but a 4' 8 bulb t5 grow light and then just take it apart, reflector and all and mount it.

Either way, just throwing ideas out there. I was going to rebuild an 8 bulb unit until i found my lights for cheap on craigslist.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I would still consider going t5 if you are going to add reflectors and what not. Same output for less input.

You could but a 4' 8 bulb t5 grow light and then just take it apart, reflector and all and mount it.

Either way, just throwing ideas out there. I was going to rebuild an 8 bulb unit until i found my lights for cheap on craigslist.

Not same output. T12 VHO was added as it had higher intensity and deeper penetration with more intense Blue to compliment MH's