Help with porcupine puffer

[Patrick P]

Looking for some help with my 9" porc. He's come down with some kind of ailment. He hasn't eaten in about 10 days, 5 days ago his eye started to haze over. Yesterday he showed signs of fin rot on his tail. Is this bacterial and what's the most affective way to treat? Thanks, any help is greatly appreciated!

 

[Old Fritz]

cloudy eyes can be caused by flukes and bacterial infections and seeing as the tail is rotting away i would go with a bacterial infection. Just to be safe however I would do a freshwater dip. Can you tell us if you qt'd, for how long, and what you treated with as well as posting water parameters.

Since your puffer does have tail rot i recommend treating with kanaplex and furan-2

 

[LAReefer4Life]

It looks like your puffer has a few things going on here. In the photo I see white grain spots likely ich. Bacterial issues are common as secondary infection. He could also have flukes. Its best to conduct a FWD and take it from there. If you see opaque color sesame seeds pieces drop off during the FWD, its flukes.

This boils down to are you going to setup a quarantine tank? If so, I am happy to walk you through the next steps.

 

[Patrick P]

Sorry, here's a bit of back ground. A year ago I took over my brother-inlaw's 180g dt with 55g sump that he had been running for at least 3yrs before we moved it to my place. It's been running for 12mo in its current location. Current stocking is 1 puffer, 1 yellow eye kole tang, 1 Powder Blue, breeding pair of Clarki's with about a 12" diameter long tip anemone, 1 fox face, 1 golden head sleeper, 1 diamond goby, 1 Bangaii cardinal, and a matted file fish. There is ich in this tank but have not had a flare up since December.

 

[Patrick P]

As far as I know the porc is over 5yrs old.

 

[Patrick P]

I am working on setting up a QT now. I have a 20 long that I can use and am making new DI water now.

 

[Patrick P]

Forgot to note that no other fish including the tangs, have any issues. All look happy and healthy.

 

[LAReefer4Life]

Thats the deal with ich management, fish are exposed to the parasite and build their immunity until they are stressed and then the parasite takes a foot hold. To eradicate the parasite from your system you'll need to run your tank fallow for 76 days which means you need a QT setup. Your mother option is make sure water quality is perfect, make sure you don't see any aggression, and feed with vitamin enriched foods. But... your puffer isn't eating and for a long period...

 

[Patrick P]

Thats the deal with ich management, fish are exposed to the parasite and build their immunity until they are stressed and then the parasite takes a foot hold. To eradicate the parasite from your system you'll need to run your tank fallow for 76 days which means you need a QT setup. Your mother option is make sure water quality is perfect, make sure you don't see any aggression, and feed with vitamin enriched foods. But... your puffer isn't eating and for a long period...

Right, the only aggression I've witnessed is from the clowns when he goes over their turf. Been running this as ich management as best we can until I'm able to let it go fallow. Have had a pretty good control of it since December when it last broke out.

 

[LAReefer4Life]

Clowns can be aggressive. Maybe they stressed him out enough to cause the ich breakout. If you don't plan on QT him, I'd conduct a FWD to provide temporarily relief long enough to get him eating again. Also temporarily separate from the clowns, maybe in an acclimation box. Again wont help long term but possible temporary solution...

 

[Patrick P]

Clowns can be aggressive. Maybe they stressed him out enough to cause the ich breakout. If you don't plan on QT him, I'd conduct a FWD to provide temporarily relief long enough to get him eating again. Also temporarily separate from the clowns, maybe in an acclimation box. Again wont help long term but possible temporary solution...

Totally possible, I'm going to pull him and give him a fwd before going into qt. One of my lfs said try para guard 1st. I did dose the dt with parazipro earlier this week. Anything else I should try?

 

[LAReefer4Life]

Puffers are more sensitive to copper so its advised you use seachem cupramine and slowly ramp up levels over 3-5 day period. Make sure also get a solid copper test. Salifert, seachem, and hanna checkers work best with cupramine, hanna checker be the easiest option of the 3.

~~~~~~~~~~~

Key Points to Conducting a Successful Fresh Water Dip:

• Use a dark 1 gallon bucket.
• Use RODI water that matches the same PH and temperature of the aquarium water

*Note: Keep PH buffer on hand if you need to raise the PH of the RODI to match the water sample.

• Add air-stone into the bucket to produce more oxygen and agitate the water surface.
• Use Prime or Amquel to ensure ammonia doesn't rise in the bucket during fresh water dip (FWD)
• The duration of the dip should last anywhere between 5-10 minutes.

*Note: This timeframe is dependent on the health and behavior of the fish during the dip.

~~~~~~~~~~~

Key Points to Successfully and Safely Administering Copper Medication:

• Copper is extremely toxic to aquarium life. As a matter of fact, no inverts, corals, etc. can survive the copper treatment and it is advised to administer copper in separate QT at-least 20 feet away from DT. In addition, all tools should be utilized separately for water changes, testing, etc.
• Copper is only effective when administered at therapeutic levels. Too low of solution it can’t do its job properly and too high of solution it can potentially kill your livestock.
• My personal brand preference for copper treatment is Seachem Cupramine. It is fully charged (ionic) copper solution. I've personally had great success with this product but there are several great products on the market.
• Do NOT run media such as carbon unless you're trying to remove or reduce of the copper solution.
• Keep the QT scape minimalistic. You want to maintain consistent levels of copper during the treatment period and any additional media, sand bed, rock, etc. can affect the copper absorption rate. PVC piping is a great solution to use for creating hiding places for your livestock while in quarantine and it will not have a large impact on the copper solution.
• A reliable test kit is a must and in conjunction with Cupramine I recommend the Hanna Checker. These tests kits are easy to facilitate and the results are read digitally. Seachem makes their own copper test kit. However, the results are viewed through a color scale which I find it hard to decipher.

*Note: API copper test kit does not work well with Cupramine.

• When administering copper treatment, it is advised to slowly increase the copper level to allow time for your fish to adapt. I start with 1/4 the recommended amount suggested by Seachem. I then add 1/8 dose twice daily splitting between am/pm over a 4-5-day period until I reach the recommended level of .50ppm.

 

[LAReefer4Life]

Totally possible, I'm going to pull him and give him a fwd before going into qt. One of my lfs said try para guard 1st. I did dose the dt with parazipro earlier this week. Anything else I should try?

Paragaurd bath would be okay in addition, but is not going to kill ich. You'll need cupramine, trust me.

 

[Patrick P]

Paragaurd bath would be okay in addition, but is not going to kill ich. You'll need cupramine, trust me.

Ok. I wasn't sure how well puffers could handle it. Especially when they were already weak. Thanks, I really appreciate the help!

 

[LAReefer4Life]

Ok. I wasn't sure how well puffers could handle it. Especially when they were already weak. Thanks, I really appreciate the help!

Good-luck! also heads up, since your QT is not cycled you'll need to keep a close eye on ammonia. There wont be enough beneficial bacteria in the system. I'd purchase a couple bottles of BIOSPIRA, get yourself an ammonia alert badge, and have backup saltwater batches in case you need to make an emergency water change. Typically ammonia test kits don't read accurately with cupramine, that's why the badge is so important.

 

[Patrick P]

On the qt, should I th

Good-luck! also heads up, since your QT is not cycled you'll need to keep a close eye on ammonia. There wont be enough beneficial bacteria in the system. I'd purchase a couple bottles of BIOSPIRA, get yourself an ammonia alert badge, and have backup saltwater batches in case you need to make an emergency water change. Typically ammonia test kits don't read accurately with cupramine, that's why the badge is so important.

Should I throw some live rock in the qt or does that matter?

 

[LAReefer4Life]

No, you'd just be cross contaminating the tank. 2 things, 1) cupramine can cause die off on the rock that leads to ammonia spikes. 2) The copper will leach into the rock and it can NOT be used again in your display.

 

[LAReefer4Life]

No, you'd just be cross contaminating the tank. 2 things, 1) cupramine can cause die off on the rock that leads to ammonia spikes. 2) The copper will leach into the rock and it can NOT be used again in your display.

If you really want to add some beneficial bacteria, I suggest using a sponge or biological ceramic rings from you displays sump/filter and add it in your QT media chamber and grab yourself the BIOSPIRA to seed your tank.

 

[Patrick P]

No, you'd just be cross contaminating the tank. 2 things, 1) cupramine can cause die off on the rock that leads to ammonia spikes. 2) The copper will leach into the rock and it can be used again in your display.

Ok, I'll leave it bare