help with QT for wrasses

[spiraling]

Hi All,
I have some wrasses coming from LA this week.
mccoskers, carpenter, hooded

I had planned to use my RSM 35 as an observation tank. It is very well cycled and has live rock, some corals, and quite a few pods in it. Once eating I would treat with prazi. I have a variety of frozen food on hand and can hatch baby shrimp.

If they show signs of ick I would move to rubbermaid bins for TTM and let this tank go fallow.

Is that a reasonable plan? I personally think fish are less stressed in a more "natural" setting than the bb tank with pvc.

For acclimation I planned to have 5 gallons salinity and temp matched, drip to that first while I make sure the tank has the correct salinity, then drip to the tank. Is that a good way to do it? LA lists salinity at 1.018 which is lower than what I normally have, and I've read its variable, so I'm prepping the tank for that now.

I also have a bare 20 gallon I can set up today if that would be a better way.

 

[Bouncingsoul39]

It's a great plan. I would do a 1-2 minute freshwater dip on them after acclimation and before tank introduction, but observe carefully for too much stress in case you need to yank them early. I recently had a Lubbock's Fairy come in from LA with either flukes or uronema. Responded well to Prazi though whatever it was.

 

[spiraling]

I just read that LA ships at 1.018. That's pretty low.
The tank is currently at 1.023, and I can drop it to 1.020 before tomorrow.

Can I put them in matched salinity / temp then acclimate up to meet the tank? I would rather not keep them in a bucket overnight. (Oh, I also have a 10 g I could set up). Is it best to put them in a bare tank at lower salinity or a "natural" tank but get the salinity up that day? I would like not to stress them or move them if I don't need to.

 

[Bouncingsoul39]

The wrasses you have listed are hardy. I would do a standard drip acclimation and stick with your original plan, personally. Just depends on what you want to do, either tank idea you have would work fine for them. If you are going to hit them with meds right away, maybe just go straight with the bare bottom setup. If you going to go natural and observe before medicating, acclimate to that tank and go for it.

 

[spiraling]

The wrasses you have listed are hardy. I would do a standard drip acclimation and stick with your original plan, personally. Just depends on what you want to do, either tank idea you have would work fine for them. If you are going to hit them with meds right away, maybe just go straight with the bare bottom setup. If you going to go natural and observe before medicating, acclimate to that tank and go for it.

I'm happy I chose hardy ones. I tried, but I've never had wrasses. I'll get them fairly quickly in water that is temp and salinity matched (to get the ph matched as well), then drip from the tank. I want to get them feeding asap. Although I did watch some FW dip videos today and that seems like a good start as well, so I will probably do that before they go into the tank.

How long to acclimate to salinity? Is an hour per .001 enough? (three hours for 1.017 to 1.020)

 

[Bouncingsoul39]

I think that is longer then necessary. LA recommends one hour total and I agree with it. Unless you are running a heater and airstone in your acclimation bucket, longer time could do more hard then good.

 

[GHsaltie]

It sounds like a good plan, however I personally would go for copper rather than ttm. Maybe it’s just my experiences but my fairy/flasher wrasses were always in a constant state of stress when I tried ttm. Also you have to factor in that wrasses, having a thicker slime coat, will hide ich and worse, velvet, better than others.

 

[spiraling]

I think that is longer then necessary. LA recommends one hour total and I agree with it. Unless you are running a heater and airstone in your acclimation bucket, longer time could do more hard then good.

I will be running a heater and airline.
I also found out they are not shipping the hooded wrasse
I'm only concerned with bringing the salinity up too quickly. I can get them temp / salinity / ph matched in 30 - 60 minutes. My house is much cooler than the aquarium so I always have a heater and / or I do a "double bucket" with a heated bucket of water the other floats in. Its a nice way so you can observe the fish better. I was hoping there was some "no faster than x salinity per hour" rule, but I haven't seen one. I guess I'll just have a chat with the flashers tomorrow, and see what they prefer. Thanks for your advice!

 

[4FordFamily]

I think that is longer then necessary. LA recommends one hour total and I agree with it. Unless you are running a heater and airstone in your acclimation bucket, longer time could do more hard then good.

The thing that causes issues for acclimation is temperature as well — it cools faster than the warm water drips, in many cases. I acclimate over 15-20 minutes max.

 

[spiraling]

It sounds like a good plan, however I personally would go for copper rather than ttm. Maybe it’s just my experiences but my fairy wrasses were always in a constant state of stress when I tried ttm. Also you have to factor in that wrasses, having a thicker slime coat, will hide ich and worse, velvet, better than others.

I had thought they didn't take copper well, but I read a post from @evolved today that you just have to raise the copper level very slowly. I'm in agreement on the copper over TTM. Several years ago i lost a lot of freshwater fish to ich because I didn't understand it. So hopefully I can be preventative / lucky this time!

 

[spiraling]

The thing that causes issues for acclimation is temperature as well — it cools faster than the warm water drips, in many cases. I acclimate over 15-20 minutes max.

even with a big (.0030) salinity difference?
I always have the acclimation bucket heated. (I live in a cold climate!)

 

[GHsaltie]

They do better in chelated copper, such as coppersafe. Honestly with how prevalent velvet is nowadays, I copper everything just to be on the safe side. Ich is a cakewalk compared to that.

 

[4FordFamily]

even with a big (.0030) salinity difference?
I always have the acclimation bucket heated. (I live in a cold climate!)

Yeah, I find that the danger of ammonia once the bag is opened is worse than the danger of any shock from faster acclimation.

 

[4FordFamily]

They do better in chelated copper, such as coppersafe. Honestly with how prevalent velvet is nowadays, I copper everything just to be on the safe side. Ich is a cakewalk compared to that.

I actually find that halichoeres do better in ionic copper, for what it’s worth. I have yet to try fairy in either but I am trying one next week! My leopards do fine in either, if increased slowly

 

[Mini Coop]

Following! I will be getting wrasses soon when I get my 180 set up, and have had pretty crappy luck with QT for them in the past, so I am looking forward to seeing how this goes. Looks like a great plan, but I agree with copper. I have had the ich outbreak before, so I am extra careful with QT.

 

[GHsaltie]

I actually find that halichoeres do better in ionic copper, for what it’s worth. I have yet to try fairy in either but I am trying one next week! My leopards do fine in either, if increased slowly

That’s really interesting, I’ll need to write that down for future reference. I haven’t had halichoeres species before so that’s good to know.

 

[spiraling]

Yeah, I find that the danger of ammonia once the bag is opened is worse than the danger of any shock from faster acclimation.

so my plan is: (they are coming tomorrow - so please let me know if this is bad)
1 - get about 10 gallons of salt at 1.020 and 77deg going tonight
2 - when the fish come - float them or 15 minutes to get them up to temp
3 - put them in a bucket with their bag water and heater. measure salinity. Match the bucket of water to that.
4 - start adding about 1/4 c per 5 minutes of temp / salinity matched water until volume doubles (30 minutes?) That is what LA recommends on their site for non-drip.
5 - discard half the water. add about a gallon of the temp / salinity matched. I'm assuming (and can measure) that the PH will be matched at this point.
6 - without much ammonia (since much of the water was discarded) take a while (a few hours??) to drip acclimate to salinity
7 - add to tank.

With the temp and salinity matched to shipping I don't want to rush the salinity match unless it really is better for the fish to get them into the tank, which the internet seem to think that raising salinity for fish is harder on them than lowering it. I'm not a fish, I don't know. I also have Prime on hand, but understand that can be a problem if the water has copper, which I'm assuming it does to control ich.

thoughts?

 

[spiraling]

I actually find that halichoeres do better in ionic copper, for what it’s worth. I have yet to try fairy in either but I am trying one next week! My leopards do fine in either, if increased slowly

in a post today evolved said it didn't matter what type of copper for the flashers/fairies .... just increase over 10 days instead of 2 as recommended. But if ionic copper seem safer then I'll use that too!

 

[spiraling]

oh and I forgot
6.5 - give the wrasses a fresh water dip to check for flukes. I'll only do this if they are looking healthy and active. If not I'll observer them first to see what should be done.

 

[Mini Coop]

So, I just read this the other night - I thought it had some really good tips about the bag and how opening it can effect the gas exchange . . . might be helpful?? I have done QT before, but the transfer into the QT I thought was great! Something most people don't think enough about! But your plan looks good too!

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/b...ion-and-quarantine.304980/page-4#post-4132480