Help with TTM and iICH

[Mattscubeofwater]

After battling ich in my QT I’ve come across a particularly resilient strain. I started the purple tang with Cupermine at .5 in a bare bottom 30 gallon tank. Had a few spots here and there during the entire 30 day regimen. I said screw it and upped it to .7 for another 14 days and they seemed to disappear. I continued for another 10 days and emptied the tank and refilled with new water after cleaning with vinegar. I put a brand new hang on the back filter on.

5 or so days later it was back. I then moved to TTM with two 10 gallons and double of everything. No filters, just throw away air stones. I’ve followed Spars TTM to the T. Everything has been allowed to dry for 72 hours. Tank transfers occurs at the 71 hour mark. Tops always on.

Question: I’m in day 7 and I’m seeing spots. About 8 or 9. Is this normal or has something gone wrong? When should I stop seeing spots?

I’m fairly certain that it’s not velvet as I think the fish would have died and it doesn’t really look like dust. Looks like ich spots.

I think the copper didn’t work cause I got lucky and got a strain that is the 60-71 day variety. I never let he 30 gallon dry after the copper.

Any advise would be appreciated.

 

[Robink]

@Humblefish @melypr1985 @Maritimer

 

[4FordFamily]

Well hang on a moment, was the tank next to it running? If ich is in that tank it can aerosol transfer believe it or not, particularly if there is air movement.

What did you use to test/measure copper levels?

Pics of the spots would also be helpful.

 

[Mattscubeofwater]

Well hang on a moment, was the tank next to it running? If ich is in that tank it can aerosol transfer believe it or not, particularly if there is air movement.

What did you use to test/measure copper levels?

Pics of the spots would also be helpful.

Yes I did read that study. I don’t keep he second tank there. That was the first day. I removed it soon after that pic was taken. The second tank drys in a different room. Both tanks have tops on at all times. The second tank was not even filled.

I used Seachem’s copper test kit

 

[saltyhog]

Yep, those tanks are way to close together! With only two transfers done I don't think it's terribly out of the ordinary to still have a few spots. I would consider adding an extra transfer ...or two.

Cross contamination is the #1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ,6 7, 8 and 9 reason for failure with TTM .

 

[Maritimer]

We do sometimes see other skin conditions, some of 'em may be a result of time spent in copper.

That having been said, give this guy another transfer or three, and see how he does. Beautiful purple - love the lines!

~Bruce

 

[Mattscubeofwater]

Yep, those tanks are way to close together! With only two transfers done I don't think it's terribly out of the ordinary to still have a few spots. I would consider adding an extra transfer ...or two.

Cross contamination is the #1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ,6 7, 8 and 9 reason for failure with TTM .

I agree. The second tank is not kept there until An hour before the transfer. So if I set the second tank up an hour before fish go in ( water is aerated and heated in a brute can in a separate room) with tops on both tanks the entire time I’m risking contamination? I don’t really have another room for a tank. My DT is in the other living room

 

[Maritimer]

I wouldn't think so ... then again, I tried TTM one time, and had such poor results that I've been a chelated copper guy ever since.

Plus, copper covers velvet . . .

~Bruce

 

[Mattscubeofwater]

Same here - I’ve never treated a fish with copper for over 30 days. I gave it a shot since I’m not a hypo guy and TTM makes really good sense in theory

 

[saltyhog]

I agree. The second tank is not kept there until An hour before the transfer. So if I set the second tank up an hour before fish go in ( water is aerated and heated in a brute can in a separate room) with tops on both tanks the entire time I’m risking contamination? I don’t really have another room for a tank. My DT is in the other living room

With the set up you're limited to, you're doing all you can to avoid it. Just do your best to transfer as little water with the fish as possible. Keep a lid on the new tank until you're ready to transfer and turn off the pump/airstone before you take the lid off the old tank to catch the fish. If you could move the tanks a few feet apart it would be better still but we do the best with what you have to work with. One thing I'm doing now is using CP for most fish except wrasses.

Bruce is right, beautiful purple!

 

[4FordFamily]

I don’t trust any other copper kit I have been burned more than once using something other than the Hanna copper checker.

 

[Mattscubeofwater]

With the set up you're limited to, you're doing all you can to avoid it. Just do your best to transfer as little water with the fish as possible. Keep a lid on the new tank until you're ready to transfer and turn off the pump/airstone before you take the lid off the old tank to catch the fish. If you could move the tanks a few feet apart it would be better still but we do the best with what you have to work with. One thing I'm doing now is using CP for most fish except wrasses.

Bruce is right, beautiful purple!

Thank you all! I think I’ve got my answer. I’ve taken the precautions you described. From what I’ve taken from this is that aerosol transfer is a concern and that it’s possible to normal to see spots on the fish at or around the third transfer (3rd xfer tonight). I’ll continue to monitor the fish. It doesn’t seem the least bit bothered by the Ich, eating and very active. We shall see, I’m still confident I can beat this even though we’ve been fighting it for 78 days

 

[Mattscubeofwater]

TTM fail. I’m done treating it. Fish are back in tank.


And on a side note: I’ve been in this hobby for 15 months. In that time I’ve had fish in my tank for maybe 3 of those months. Every fish I’ve purchased has had some form of ich/velvet/flukes etc and has died except this skunk clown I don’t even really like. This is absolutely crap. To treat fish for 60 days using cupermine then do TTM for 14 days and still have ich or whatever it is maddening. I’m done QTing fish. So many of the pros just throw fish in and let it work out. I’m about the corals anyway. Rant over