OP
OP
domination2580
Reef-a-nator
Here's the results
Help
- Thread starter domination2580
- Start date
- Tagged users None
Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 0, Members: 0, Guests: 0)
120reefkeeper
Reef keeping with Military Precision!
Cool everything looks spot on to me. [emoji41]
And this was the salt sample you sent to Poland .... correct??
And this was the salt sample you sent to Poland .... correct??
OP
OP
domination2580
Reef-a-nator
Yes it was but still concerning about why every test I've done with numerous test kits have always shown above 1400
Agreed
This boils down to 2 things, and only 2 things since we now can validate the salt.
1. There is likely error in salinity readings when mixing, higher concentration, higher mineral/trace mineral concentration-Thus leading to a higher test result in mineral concentration
2. There is likely error in test kit reliability.
Combine these 2 things, and it would be very feasible to see your mag concentration elevated.
Most important take-away- If using the salt changes that AF recommends(10%) weekly, you should in fact not see any major spikes with any mineral or trace mineral concentration. Now, should you decided to do a 20% water change, and assuming your parameter for your tank water on mag was 1350. Even if you displaced 20% volume with mag at 1500, your tank would then test out at 1380, a nominal shift that would not harm any animals in the tank. If it were me, I would measure your water mixing at 1.024-1.025, this will ensure proper levels. There is no need to mix to 1.026, this is on the high side, and with error involved in refractometers, I would feel more comfortable with 1.025, as 1 degree variance up or down would be no major deal. But a shift to 1.027 with a faulty handheld refractometer could be borderline scary. My advice is to discontinue all dosing and water changes until you can dial in the exact parameters you desire, or within range. When you accomplish this, make sure when you do water changes, that you mix to 1.024-1.025, if you do this, you will have stable results, and hopefully mirror your water changes to the desired levels you wish to achieve. I would let the salt mixing at desired salinity dictate the levels you wish to achieve, this way a water change will not even slightly shift parameters. Cheers
1. There is likely error in salinity readings when mixing, higher concentration, higher mineral/trace mineral concentration-Thus leading to a higher test result in mineral concentration
2. There is likely error in test kit reliability.
Combine these 2 things, and it would be very feasible to see your mag concentration elevated.
Most important take-away- If using the salt changes that AF recommends(10%) weekly, you should in fact not see any major spikes with any mineral or trace mineral concentration. Now, should you decided to do a 20% water change, and assuming your parameter for your tank water on mag was 1350. Even if you displaced 20% volume with mag at 1500, your tank would then test out at 1380, a nominal shift that would not harm any animals in the tank. If it were me, I would measure your water mixing at 1.024-1.025, this will ensure proper levels. There is no need to mix to 1.026, this is on the high side, and with error involved in refractometers, I would feel more comfortable with 1.025, as 1 degree variance up or down would be no major deal. But a shift to 1.027 with a faulty handheld refractometer could be borderline scary. My advice is to discontinue all dosing and water changes until you can dial in the exact parameters you desire, or within range. When you accomplish this, make sure when you do water changes, that you mix to 1.024-1.025, if you do this, you will have stable results, and hopefully mirror your water changes to the desired levels you wish to achieve. I would let the salt mixing at desired salinity dictate the levels you wish to achieve, this way a water change will not even slightly shift parameters. Cheers
120reefkeeper
Reef keeping with Military Precision!
Can I like the above statement again?? Oops I think I just did . [emoji12]
OP
OP
domination2580
Reef-a-nator
@Perry, please explain to me why my salinity being lower then what the icp tested at has higher mag....i used less salt hence lower concentrations of trace elements but yet my mag was still higher. Also are you saying that 2 salifert tests and 2 red sea tests are all bad?
P.s. I did calibrate my refractometer with 35ppt calibration fluid.
P.s. I did calibrate my refractometer with 35ppt calibration fluid.
Yes I can explain. The salt sample was sent to Poland, mixed to a salinty of 33PPT, your result is exactly what it should be. Yes, I understand calibration, and as a FYI, the solution for measurement could also have error, heard grumblings of that from a fellow distributor that carries a certain brand of calibration fluid. Can you explain why you are so concerned though? RHF mentions 1500 mag is not a bad thing anyway, so let's say for arguments sake that your test kits are more accurate than ICP, what does it really matter if the animals won't be impacted, I have had mine go as high as 1800 without harming any delicate SPS corals. Oh, btw, that happened to me on 2 occasions using Salifert mag test kits that were close to the end of available tests and within date range. I logged on my build thread, I did not make this up. You can also use RODI and calibrate your refracto down to zero, this may be worth a shot, but again, at the end of the day, we are really only arguing at this point for arguments sake. So let's get on topic and talk about salt. Not sure of your experience level, I am on the advanced side of SPS keeping, 12+ successful years. Before supporting AF and using AF, during supporting AF and after, and now a distributor, I still in my reef keeping career have NEVER used a better salt. I have tried nearly EVERY salt out there. The next best salt I have used is TMP, used it for 8 years, and it is a heck of a salt. Only complaint is it mixed higher than where I prefer to maintain my values. That said, again, if you are displacing 10% as Aquaforest advises on a weekly basis, can you explain to me how mag at 1500 would matter? I already gave you the ratio of a 20% water change and the impact on mineral concentration, just think, at the recommended level, this would not move your mag enough to even detect on your test kits. Your choice, either way, but I think you are falling victim to number chasing, and putting your emphasis on that. I made that mistake as well, so I totally get it. I learned that observation is critical in reef keeping, and test results cause unnecessary knee jerk reactions for many newbies, please take my experience with a grain of salt. My goal is to guide and help, I am certain all the support staff for AF have done their work, and I appreciate them for it. Cheers
OP
OP
domination2580
Reef-a-nator
Well the components 123 are made to dose equal amounts. If my mag is at 1500 then I'm adding more and more to get to 1500. And it was mixed at 34ppt as stated in the icp.
And as far as calibrating using rodi, that is not the correct way to calibrate a refractometer.
I thought we are talking about salt, lets discuss one product at a time. This time we are discussing salt. I have calibrated this way for years, so I guess my results with huge colorful acros do not account for anything in your reef keeping guide? Buddy I am trying to help, if you want help, after all, you attract more bees with honey 
OP
OP
domination2580
Reef-a-nator
It's in relation to salt. In order to dose 123 I need stable water parameters which is from salt. Or am I way off?
jsker
Reefing is all about the adventure
Your system consumes, and only doing water change your system will deplete some of the elements more the others. This is were 1+2+3+ comes in, to balance the parameter between water changes for optimal growth and color of your corals on over all system health.
OP
OP
domination2580
Reef-a-nator
Thank you! How do i know how much to dose of each? Also can it be used for a system with minimal water changes?
jsker
Reefing is all about the adventure
Yes, and I would start with the minimum and build up, I dosing with a doser 8 times a day to spread out the doses. The reasoning is to spread out the dose so there is not the ups and downs of the parameters.
120reefkeeper
Reef keeping with Military Precision!
Your dosing is based off of your Alkalinity consumption. Using components 123 this would be the component +2
OP
OP
domination2580
Reef-a-nator
I should specify that I mean the components 1+,2+, and 3+.
OP
OP
domination2580
Reef-a-nator
Also, just got in the calcium additive in order to let mag level out. Which was before i got the results back. So I have been dosing just alk and cal. According to my math I should dose 20 ml of the calcium for a 55 to raise it by 10 correct?
jsker
Reefing is all about the adventure
Ah yes thank you for pointing that out. @GoVols has a thread here that explains the basic principles of doing 1+2+3+. Remember each system is different and it is a land of trial, discovery/error and learning of how your system reacts @domination2580 and it changes with demand and age of your system.
I have watched this thread in the past couple of months and this is a journey of watching like @Perry stated and testing our systems. Above all it requires a great deal of patients.
OP
OP
domination2580
Reef-a-nator
I agree but how am I supposed to be able to watch my system as far as testing goes when all my test kits are off for mag?
Honestly, your tank is looking great, spend your time with the animals enjoying them. I test mag once per month, calcium every other week, but alk, that one I test every few days. Why, because what I as others have learned is that these parameters shifting are not as detrimental as alk shifting. This applies specifically to SPS corals, but others that calcify also do not like shifting alk. @ 34 PPT, your alk reading was 7.5 I think, or close. This is the parameter to validate and concern yourself over. This salt is designed to mix with lower KH, this is a good thing with someone who uses probiotic based system specifically, as corals tend to lose tissue when the alk is high with low nutrients, in a carbon source driven system. I would allow the parameter to fall inline over time, once you are happy with your levels, then dose comp 123 equally to maintain all these values. The set point for dosing is based on alk consumption, then all others are intended to dose equally. Sometimes during the break in process, you may need to use lower values for Component 1(ca/mg) in order to balance out. This is ok on a temporary basis, but ultimately the calcification process will pull all these liquids equally, it just can take time to balance. All things should be done with patience in mind, never make huge swift changes to your system, take your time and observe
On another note, you can allow the minerals to drop by mixing to say 33PPT, this will ensure lower minerals. You can always tweek your alkalinity up manually, as the other main minerals will be at lower concentration. Just a thought
