Herbie Drain Loud in Sump

[HLRkpm]

Hey!

This is my first post on this site although I have gained a great amount of insight thanks to you all!

After a long break from reefing, I have recently started a marineland 90 gallon with corner overflow. I have been set up for about a month with the durso set up that came with the tank from a LFS. It was noisy and annoying. While cycling, I figured I would switch to a herbie set up as that seems to be everyones response to fix a noisy durso, as well as relatively simple. I have reviewed many threads and websites on the herbie design and became quite familiar.

All plumbing is 1 inch PVC. I have the emergency drain about 6 inches above main drain. Main drain goes from bulkhead, to union, to gate valve, to union, to sump threaded pipe adapter with final pipe less than an inch below water level. All of this is completely straight to the sump, no 90* fittings, no 45*s, no horizontal sections, just directly to the sump. Water level in over flow is good, just below the emergency drain. I will do my best to attach a photo to this post.

My issue being, when water enters the sump from the main drain, there is a loud splashing and bubbles. I assume this is due to air being trapped below the gate valve, although this assumption could be incorrect.

I am unsure of how to remedy this. Has anyone personally dealt with this issue and found a solid reliable remedy?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!

 

[P-Dub]

The solution is rather simple and elegant... Lengthen the pipe in the sump. Mine is just a few inches off the bottom of the sump. Quiets down the noise quite a bit. You don't even have to glue the fittings, just slip fit for ease of maintenance.

 

[P-Dub]

BTW @HLRkpm , head on over to here

Meet & Greet Forum​

and introduce yourself! WELCOME!!! Don't forget to include some photos of your setup there.

 

[Philly Reefer]

Yup. Your pipes should be submerged in water

This is before I put the baffle.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Extend the drain so that it is well down in the water. Filter socks also help

 

[Reef Tripp]

The main line has to be completely submerged to create a complete siphon, both in the overflow and in the sump and with the valve adjust the drop of the second line to silence the system

 

[HLRkpm]

Thanks guys!

I did just try that by lengthening the drain pipe further into the water, closer to the bottom of the sump.

Unfortunately, there was no change in noise. The emergency drain is above the water level to make noise in case water flows through.

I am confused by these suggestions as everything I have read about the herbie design states the main drain should be less than an inch below water level in order to properly purge the air from the drain.

I appreciate your input!

 

[P-Dub]

Air will purge well below the waterline so long as you have sufficient flow down the drain. I would go both drain lines well below the and only a few inches above the sump floor and report back.

 

[Water Dog]

Water level in over flow is good, just below the emergency drain.

The full siphon line being an inch below the water level in the sump is the correct choice. That 1 inch depth helps the full siphon purge the trapped air air in the full siphon line quickly. If it’s deeper, the back pressure will cause the full siphon to have a harder time purging all the air out of the line.

Based what I quoted from your OP above, I’m thinking that you haven’t got a full siphon going yet. If you had a full siphon, then there should be a small trickle of water going down the secondary drain of the Herbie... the “emergency” as you call it.

Close the gate valve of your full siphon slowly until you get a small trickle of water flowing down the secondary drain of the Herbie. That will ensure that you have established a full siphon in your primary drain line. This should quiet everything down.

 

[JoshH]

The full siphon line being an inch below the water level in the sump is the correct choice. That 1 inch depth helps the full siphon purge the trapped air air in the full siphon line quickly. If it’s deeper, the back pressure will cause the full siphon to have a harder time purging all the air out of the line.

Based what I quoted from your OP above, I’m thinking that you haven’t got a full siphon going yet. If you had a full siphon, then there should be a small trickle of water going down the secondary drain of the Herbie... the “emergency” as you call it.

Open up the gate valve of your full siphon slowly until you get a small trickle of water flowing down the second drain of the emergency. That will ensure that you have established a full siphon in your primary drain line. This should quiet everything down.

+1 On this although I think @Water Dog means slowly close the gate valve on your full siphon until there is a small trickle running down the secondary line You can run your lines into your sump deeper but if it is set up correctly you shouldn't have to be more than a couple inches under the water line in the sump.

 

[Water Dog]

Thanks @JoshH I just edited my post upon rereading it! Yes, close the gate valve slowly till you get a trickle down the secondary. That should establish the full siphon and quiet it down.

 

[HLRkpm]

Air will purge well below the waterline so long as you have sufficient flow down the drain. I would go both drain lines well below the and only a few inches above the sump floor and report back.

There is not any water flowing through the emergency drain pipe, only the main drain pipe. I have extended the main drain pipe down to nearly the bottom of the sump, without change in noise. Also just replaced filter socks with new ones.

The full siphon line being an inch below the water level in the sump is the correct choice. That 1 inch depth helps the full siphon purge the trapped air air in the full siphon line quickly. If it’s deeper, the back pressure will cause the full siphon to have a harder time purging all the air out of the line.

Based what I quoted from your OP above, I’m thinking that you haven’t got a full siphon going yet. If you had a full siphon, then there should be a small trickle of water going down the secondary drain of the Herbie... the “emergency” as you call it.

Open up the gate valve of your full siphon slowly until you get a small trickle of water flowing down the secondary drain of the Herbie. That will ensure that you have established a full siphon in your primary drain line. This should quiet everything down.

I appreciate your input!

I am following your description. I have reset the overflow level so that there is a slight trickle, and water level is stable due to gate valve adjustment. Not rising, not falling. Still same noise.

I feel as though I have followed everything I have read exactly as stated and by reading other peoples issues and cures so I am stumped!



Unfortunately the photo is posting horizontally. This is a side view of the overflow with the water level on the left. Main drain is fully submerged, water level stable.

 

[HLRkpm]

I have read that the addition of an airline may cure this issue. Is anyone familiar with this approach?

I am unsure of how this would work or how to attach an airline.

 

[P-Dub]

"
I have read that the addition of an airline may cure this issue. Is anyone familiar with this approach?

I am unsure of how this would work or how to attach an airline."
Ahhhh, therein lies your issue. Drill a hole in the top of the main downline drain and insert an airline tube. Drill the hole just big enough to squeeze the airline tube in. Do not insert the airline tube deeper than the depth of the PVC wall. You may or may not wish to insert an airline valve. I have my airline completely open and drawing air from the outside of my home to help with pH.

 

[Water Dog]

Is the noise now coming from your trickle line? If so, join a 90 degree elbow and a 90 degree street elbow with a hole drilled on the crest of the “U“ and cap that trickle line. That should help quiet the secondary drain line.

If the noise is coming from the full siphon, keep closing that gate valve slowly and wait 2 - 3 minutes between adjustments. Once the full siphon is established, the noise in that full siphon line should quiet down.

Now if the noise is not from your drain lines and is coming from your sump, then it may very well be coming from where the water drains into the sump and then goes into the filter sock compartment.. If it’s the drain/filter sock area noise, the only remedy I’ve found that helps is to dial back your return pump, via controller if DC or a valve if AC.

 

[Water Dog]

Ahhhh, therein lies your issue. Drill a hole in the top of the main downline drain and insert an airline tube. Drill the hole just big enough to squeeze the airline tube in. Do not insert the airline tube deeper than the depth of the PVC wall. You may or may not wish to insert an airline valve. I have my airline completely open and drawing air from the outside of my home to help with pH.

Sorry, but a tube in the mainline drain thing is for a single drain Durso set up to release trapped airm avoiding the gurgling noise. This is not necessary in a full siphon line in a Herbie as there should be no air in a full siphon line.

 

[Reef Tripp]

Herbie Overflow Plumbing Guide for Quiet Reef Aquariums - gmacreef

The Herbie method can quiet down your aquarium drain and eliminate microbubbles. The guide includes helpful diagrams and explains each component.

gmacreef.com

 

[P-Dub]

I have read that the addition of an airline may cure this issue. Is anyone familiar with this approach?

I am unsure of how this would work or how to attach an airline.

Sorry, but a tube in the mainline drain thing is for a single drain Durso set up.

Very true! I should have included the caveat to modify his current herbie, which according to the photo is what is installed and not a durso, to a stockman standpipe design and drill hole and insert tube. Thanks for the correction @Water Dog .

 

[HLRkpm]

Is the noise now coming from your trickle line? If so, join a 90 degree elbow and a 90 degree street elbow with a hole drilled on the crest of the “U“ and cap that trickle line. That should help quiet the secondary drain line.

If the noise is coming from the full siphon, keep closing that gate valve slowly and wait 2 - 3 minutes between adjustments. Once the full siphon is established, the noise in that full siphon line should quiet down.

Now if the noise is not from your drain lines and is coming from your sump, then it may very well be coming from where the water drains into the sump and then goes into the filter sock compartment.. If it’s the drain/filter sock area noise, the only remedy I’ve found that helps is to dial back your return pump, via controller if DC or a valve if AC.

The noise is coming from the main drain, secondary is not making noise. Just to clarify, it is a kind of bubbling noise like running water.

I have adjusted the valve exactly as you stated. I am stumped by this! seems as though there is still air in the main drain that is not able to purge.

I will go to LFS tomorrow to grab some filter floss to put into the filter sock in hopes that kind of break up the falling water in filter sock, although I am quite certain the noise is from the main drain entering the sump.

I appreciate your determination to help!

Herbie Overflow Plumbing Guide for Quiet Reef Aquariums - gmacreef

The Herbie method can quiet down your aquarium drain and eliminate microbubbles. The guide includes helpful diagrams and explains each component.

gmacreef.com

Yes, I have followed this exactly.

Thank you! I appreciate your input.

 

[Water Dog]

Keep closing the valve. If there’s still noise in the main line, a full siphon is not yet established. Don’t worry, the secondary will take up the slack, that’s what it’s there for. Remember, make your adjustments slowly.