Herbie drain overflow problem

[Reefnewb]

hey guys I have a problem with my new herbie drain. The water level in my overflow keeps fluctuating. No matter what I do it goes up and down at first I thought it was because my vortech mp40 was pushing to much water but I was wrong. The way it's plumbed is one 1" main full siphion drain and one 1" emergency, gate valve on the full siphion. The return pump is a vectra m1 calibrated to my tank. I tried the return turned all the way up and all the way down to see if it was pushing to much but nothing mattered. The tank is a marineland reef ready with a corner overflow. Any help would be great!! Thanks

 

[Brew12]

hey guys I have a problem with my new herbie drain. The water level in my overflow keeps fluctuating. No matter what I do it goes up and down at first I thought it was because my vortech mp40 was pushing to much water but I was wrong. The way it's plumbed is one 1" main full siphion drain and one 1" emergency, gate valve on the full siphion. The return pump is a vectra m1 calibrated to my tank. I tried the return turned all the way up and all the way down to see if it was pushing to much but nothing mattered. The tank is a marineland reef ready with a corner overflow. Any help would be great!! Thanks

Can you describe the fluctuation? Is it going up to the emergency drain, starting to drain, and then dropping?

 

[Brew12]

Here is how I would recommend setting it up. I'm assuming your emergency drain is 4" to 6" higher than your siphon drain.

Set your M1 pump to the flow you want through your sump.
Open the gate valve on your full siphon drain all the way.
Slowly start closing the valve. Set it so that the water level very slowly rises (30 to 60 seconds) from the top of the full siphon drain to the emergency drain.

You should have a constant trickle of flow down your emergency drain if you have it set up correctly.

 

[Reefnewb]

Here is how I would recommend setting it up. I'm assuming your emergency drain is 4" to 6" higher than your siphon drain.

Set your M1 pump to the flow you want through your sump.
Open the gate valve on your full siphon drain all the way.
Slowly start closing the valve. Set it so that the water level very slowly rises (30 to 60 seconds) from the top of the full siphon drain to the emergency drain.

You should have a constant trickle of flow down your emergency drain if you have it set up correctly.

Yes my emergency is 5" higher than the main. That's what I did. I have the vectra set to where I want it and then I don't touch it. I then set the herbie so I have a slight trickle down the emergency. But then after a couple minutes the water height in the overflow box with start to go up and down.

 

[Reefnewb]

It

Can you describe the fluctuation? Is it going up to the emergency drain, starting to drain, and then dropping?

When I have it set how I want it it will overflow the emergency drain pipe then drop like a half inch below the emergency

 

[Brew12]

Yes my emergency is 5" higher than the main. That's what I did. I have the vectra set to where I want it and then I don't touch it. I then set the herbie so I have a slight trickle down the emergency. But then after a couple minutes the water height in the overflow box with start to go up and down.

I wonder if the Vectra speed isn't completely constant. Might be some variation within the controller.

I would try setting it for slightly more trickle down the emergency drain. You can expect to need to make adjustments to this over the next few months as the system ages.

 

[Smo]

Are you sure all the air is evacuating from the full syphon? And the outflow in the sump is approx 1 inch below the working water level?

 

[Reefnewb]

I wonder if the Vectra speed isn't completely constant. Might be some variation within the controller.

I would try setting it for slightly more trickle down the emergency drain. You can expect to need to make adjustments to this over the next few months as the system ages.

I was thinking that about the vectra but I don't think that would be the case since it allows you to calibrate it I would think it would be pretty spot on. But maybe that's what I'll try. I do have a mag 9 laying around

Are you sure all the air is evacuating from the full syphon? And the outflow in the sump is approx 1 inch below the working water level?

That was another one of my thoughts. Maybe there is an air bubble trapped somewhere because I do have two 90°s but iv done it this way on multiple tanks and. Ever had a problem but I guess ya never know. And yes my pipes are about an inch under the water in the sump.

 

[Trivan]

Is the vectra feeding anything else like a manafold? This can have a affect on the flow

 

[Reefnewb]

Is the vectra feeding anything else like a manafold? This can have a affect on the flow

Nope not feeding anything else.

 

[Reefnewb]

Actually I just turned the vortech completely off and everything completely stabilized... not sure what to do about that??

 

[Smo]

Perhaps random chance is finally in your favor. What happens with the vortec back on?

 

[recess62]

Does your sump level in the chamber with the vortec stay constant?

 

[Reefnewb]

The vortech is in the tank. And the sump level is changing because the level in the overflow keeps going up and down

 

[Brew12]

The vortech is in the tank. And the sump level is changing because the level in the overflow keeps going up and down

Ok, I'm confused. I thought you had a standard setup where you drained into a sump, and the Vortech was in the sump used as a return. Can you describe your layout?

Nevermind. The Vectra is in the sump, the Vortech is in the tank. Mind stopped working for a second.

 

[Smo]

The vortech is in the tank. And the sump level is changing because the level in the overflow keeps going up and down

Confusing. The amount of water entering the overflow should only be a function of the linear overflow length. A power head in the tank should have no effect, especially a Vortech, which I assume cannot easily be pointed towards the overflow. If the water in the overflow box is not steady, i.e., going up and down, then the variability has to be in the full syphon drain. I further assume--display tank water level is constant during return pump operation? If so, kind of narrows it down to something funky going on with the full syphon drain line. What type of valve are you using, by the way, a gate? If you are using a ball valve instead--it could be challenging to "fine tune."

 

[Lowstorm]

How far below the water line do the teeth of the overflow go? I can see the in tank powerhead pushing water through the teeth, when the water level goes up in the sump and drops in tank it stops pushing water over the teeth. When the sumps pump catches up with the overflow which was reduced to a trickle, the in tank powerhead does it again. Repeat.

Try positioning the powerhead under the overflow moving water to the front of the glass or some other way away from the overflow. If possible make the teeth shorter under the water line?

Do you have just one powerhead or multiple

 

[Brew12]

I only see 2 possibilities.

1) The Vortech is creating a "standing wave" or causing turbulence that is impacting the ability of water from getting into the overflow.
2) Some form of electrical interference is causing the return pump to change speeds.

 

[Lowstorm]

And pretty please post pics of the tank sump and plumbing

 

[Reefnewb]

After letting the tank run for an hour it started happening again and you guys are right it has to be the full siphion that has an air pocket in it that changes the drain flow rate. I have had herbie setup like this before on multiple tanks and never had this issue. But it has to be it! I will get a new bulk head and put two 45° fittings instead of the two 90°