Herbie Method Drain & Sump

[Oroborous]

Hi guys,

So i currently have an extra 90 gallon tank which would be an upgrade to my 38 gallon. The 90 gallon has a build in overflow and it used to have a durso drain and return in it so that is 2 wholes drilled. I don';t have the stand pipe nor the return and while i could probably rebuild i decided to go with a Herbie method. The challenge that i am facing is that i have no idea how to get the emergency and main drain to be 1 inch in water since the sump that i have has things in a way there. it would seem it would work fine with durso since it already has a whole for a drain but if i have try to have two pvc's going there it would not work since the water level for one drain would be much higher. do you need a special sump for the herbie drain?

 

[TheEngineer]

No special pumps needed. You do need a valve on your main drain to control the flow rate though. In my tank that main drain is about 3" shorter than the emergency. Then you set the flow rate so you get just a trickle into the emergency drain.

 

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[Oroborous]

See below

 

[Oroborous]

I know about gave vales, i am getting the spears gate valve and a strainer. Problem i am facing is the train part of the sump it build only for a one standpipe where water level is much more higher than the rest of the sump. Because both of the holes in the oveflow are drilled around 8" in between each other the are is just too small for the both of them to be able to run to the sump. i will take a picture when i get home. but the below illustration how it is currently setup or rather how it was(Sorry i am terrible with art).

 

[Idoc]

Pictures will definitely help...I'm having a hard time understanding what you are having problems with by the writeup. You can look at my build thread (link in my signature) and see how I setup my Herbie style drain system. Both my predrilled holes were setup to accommodate 1" bulkheads and PVC. I used one for my full siphon line and the other as my emergency drain line. Then, I used an over the rim setup for my return. Your sump may only have one pre-built drain line connecting into it...this you would want to setup with your full siphon line. The emergency line can empty anywhere into the sump...it is recommended to have this actually a few inches above the water line in the sump so that if it is being used, you will hear the "splash" of the water hitting the sump...this gives you warning that something may be out of sorts with your full siphon line!

 

[Oroborous]

Pictures will definitely help...I'm having a hard time understanding what you are having problems with by the writeup. You can look at my build thread (link in my signature) and see how I setup my Herbie style drain system. Both my predrilled holes were setup to accommodate 1" bulkheads and PVC. I used one for my full siphon line and the other as my emergency drain line. Then, I used an over the rim setup for my return. Your sump may only have one pre-built drain line connecting into it...this you would want to setup with your full siphon line. The emergency line can empty anywhere into the sump...it is recommended to have this actually a few inches above the water line in the sump so that if it is being used, you will hear the "splash" of the water hitting the sump...this gives you warning that something may be out of sorts with your full siphon line!

I am sorry, i am terrible at trying to explain this. I will get an image going when i get home. I think it's worth to mention that the two drilled wholes are different sizes. one is 1" the other 3/4. Would it make sense to use the 1" as a emergency since it's bigger and the 3/4 as a main full siphon? I don't want to screw around with re drilling or trying to make the other 1"

 

[Idoc]

I am sorry, i am terrible at trying to explain this. I will get an image going when i get home. I think it's worth to mention that the two drilled wholes are different sizes. one is 1" the other 3/4. Would it make sense to use the 1" as a emergency since it's bigger and the 3/4 as a main full siphon? I don't want to screw around with re drilling or trying to make the other 1"

Understandable...plumbing questions are difficult to put into words! Pics definitely make it easier to understand.

I would use the 3/4 line as my full siphon and the 1" line as my emergency....this allows the emergency to fully cover the flow in case the full siphon line gets a blockage. Make sure you have a "screen" on the full siphon line to keep snails out! Snails will definitely get into the overflow and will find their way down the emergency line into the sump...I'm always amazed to find them in my sump! The 3/4" line should be able to handle the flow you desire easily. I was lucky that both my overflow holes were predrilled to 1". You definitely don't want to attempt to re-drill the holes any bigger! I'm using a Varios 6 DC return pump set on the 3rd setting and it's giving me plenty of turnover in my sump...and I have the gate valve on my full siphon line no where near full open! My build thread has a lot of pictures that might help you "picture" what I am talking about.

 

[Oroborous]

Understandable...plumbing questions are difficult to put into words! Pics definitely make it easier to understand.

I would use the 3/4 line as my full siphon and the 1" line as my emergency....this allows the emergency to fully cover the flow in case the full siphon line gets a blockage. Make sure you have a "screen" on the full siphon line to keep snails out! Snails will definitely get into the overflow and will find their way down the emergency line into the sump...I'm always amazed to find them in my sump! The 3/4" line should be able to handle the flow you desire easily. I was lucky that both my overflow holes were predrilled to 1". You definitely don't want to attempt to re-drill the holes any bigger! I'm using a Varios 6 DC return pump set on the 3rd setting and it's giving me plenty of turnover in my sump...and I have the gate valve on my full siphon line no where near full open! My build thread has a lot of pictures that might help you "picture" what I am talking about.

Thank for the reply. Yes a strainer/screen i got coming in today, And i am going to use a spears gate valve on the siphon just like you did, I think it give you more room to fine tune vs ball-valve. Looking at your build and how your pluming goes down to sump you just gave me an idea.

 

[Idoc]

Thank for the reply. Yes a strainer/screen i got coming in today, And i am going to use a spears gate valve on the siphon just like you did, I think it give you more room to fine tune vs ball-valve. Looking at your build and how your pluming goes down to sump you just gave me an idea.

I couldn't imagine fine tuning the drain without a gate valve...I'll make 1/8" turn to adjust sometimes and that makes a difference! I can't see how that could be done easily with a sticky ball valve.

 

[Oroborous]

here's the image of my sump

 

[Oroborous]

I couldn't imagine fine tuning the drain without a gate valve...I'll make 1/8" turn to adjust sometimes and that makes a difference! I can't see how that could be done easily with a sticky ball valve.

As you see the water level is higher where the drain is. What would you suggest doing?

 

[Idoc]

So, it looks like you have a 1" drain coming in on the left side of the sump...and a 3/4" return on the right side (with a gate valve on the return line).

Just run the 3/4" line where the 1" line currently is running onto th he sump and make this your full siphon line. This is very good news since you already have a 3/4" gate valve on that line... saves you buying another gate valve! Make it where you can easily access the valve, though. I don't like horizontal runs of pvc, though...you can get air trapped in them and cause problems with your siphon as well as cause noise. If you can't push the sump deeper into the cabinet to make more of a direct drop into the sump, then I'd use a couple of 45 degree elbows to get a slanted run down to the sump. Make this pipe extend at least a couple inches below the sump water line... very quiet that way. At the top in the overflow, make the top of the siphon about 6 inches under the water line... this helps get the siphon started easily.

Now just make your current 1" line for emergency drain line. Again run this one without a horizontal pvc run... using 45 degree elbows... and just make this one empty into your skimmer section...about 3 inches above the water line. Being above the water line allows this one to make noise when it is being used heavily...alerting you to a problem in your siphon drain line! In the overflow box, this one should be set at the water line height. With a herbie design, you do want a small trickle of water going down this emergency line. The reason for no horizontal run of the pvc in this line is to keep the trapped air from taking away space from water making to go down this line!

Then, you will need to run a new 3/4" return line from your return pump back up and over the rim of your display tank. You don't need to waste a gate valve on the return line...a cheaper ball valve is sufficient in case you need to control that for some reason. I have a ball on my return and have never used it...stays open fully.

Hope this helps!