HERBIE OVERFLOW METHOD
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Willy315
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Drain back in your sump is determined by where your returns are at in the tank. On your returns you can drill a small hole just below the water line to create a siphon break, Other option is to get a sump large enough to handle the water volume.
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ReeferRod
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I have a 39 gallon sump that should hold that water in my 75 gallon tank??? I posted the picture of where I would drill the hole, which is my emergency return. The other is the normal return. I just wanted to ensure I’m doing it correctly because I’ve read and seen several modifications of this method and would like to be smart, doing it right the first time...
mrlavalamp
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drilling a hole in the spot indicated prevents a full siphon from developing in the pipe with the elbows. If a full siphon develops in this tube it will "flush" the box and then when the siphon breaks it will fill back up until it starts again and "flush" again. And it will sound just like a toilet flushing lol.
Even with the hole there, it will gurgle a lot.
You can put a tube down it to quiet the gurgling.
I have very nearly this setup in my tank and it makes a little trickling noise, but not bad, my maxspect jump return pump is louder.
put a valve on the tube with the strainer so you can tune the height of the water in the overflow box.
If your main drain can handle ALL of the flow from this box down to your sump, then you should probably just take the elbows off and leave the emergency as a true emergency path (dry most of the time).
If you need both pipes to handle the flow rate of your return, then how you have it just about the best option, drill that hole and get some poly tube to stuffed down in there and quiet the gurgling.
Even with the hole there, it will gurgle a lot.
You can put a tube down it to quiet the gurgling.
I have very nearly this setup in my tank and it makes a little trickling noise, but not bad, my maxspect jump return pump is louder.
put a valve on the tube with the strainer so you can tune the height of the water in the overflow box.
If your main drain can handle ALL of the flow from this box down to your sump, then you should probably just take the elbows off and leave the emergency as a true emergency path (dry most of the time).
If you need both pipes to handle the flow rate of your return, then how you have it just about the best option, drill that hole and get some poly tube to stuffed down in there and quiet the gurgling.
That’s the emergency drain line not the return line. Usually the one that could syphon back is the return line. But again that depends on how far inside the tank you place the return line you could also use a check valve to help with that.
mrlavalamp
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the return is where your sump pump feeds water back into the display.
The overflow box you have pictured has drains in it (don't mean to be pedantic, but proper terminology will help you here a TON). The overflow box should work like that. The major factor here is flow rate on your return pump.
Those look like 1" pipes, you should be able to flow around 600 gph down a single drain pipe.
Now....you are also worried about your return pump shutting off (power outage) and that piping siphoning your display down into the sump.
Your return pump will probably feed up and over the rim of the tank. What you need to do (and what emilio365 is referencing) is create a way to break the siphon on your return pump.
The easiest way to do this is to drill a small hole (1/8" works for me) right where your return pipe hits the top of the normal water level in your display tank.
This little hole allows water to spray out at all times when the pump is on, which is why it needs to be inside the display tank, and not able to spray out. This hole also allows air back in FIRST instead of sucking all your display water down to the sump when the return pump turns off.
BRS has an excellent video on this! They recommend check valves. I never ever use them. As a chemical engineer that deals in systems on industrial scale, they are only rarely actually worth it and usually become a maintenance headache or they just fail to work when you need them, best to plan not to rely on them at all (and save the money by not using them).
The overflow box you have pictured has drains in it (don't mean to be pedantic, but proper terminology will help you here a TON). The overflow box should work like that. The major factor here is flow rate on your return pump.
Those look like 1" pipes, you should be able to flow around 600 gph down a single drain pipe.
Now....you are also worried about your return pump shutting off (power outage) and that piping siphoning your display down into the sump.
Your return pump will probably feed up and over the rim of the tank. What you need to do (and what emilio365 is referencing) is create a way to break the siphon on your return pump.
The easiest way to do this is to drill a small hole (1/8" works for me) right where your return pipe hits the top of the normal water level in your display tank.
This little hole allows water to spray out at all times when the pump is on, which is why it needs to be inside the display tank, and not able to spray out. This hole also allows air back in FIRST instead of sucking all your display water down to the sump when the return pump turns off.
BRS has an excellent video on this! They recommend check valves. I never ever use them. As a chemical engineer that deals in systems on industrial scale, they are only rarely actually worth it and usually become a maintenance headache or they just fail to work when you need them, best to plan not to rely on them at all (and save the money by not using them).
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ReeferRod
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Thank you, I’ve watched that video several times, starting and stopping looking at their setup. It a great video, but wanted to double check my modification to make sure it will work? Thank you for your advice and input, it’s very much appreciated. My terminology’s a bit off, I’m a newbie...
mrlavalamp
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I would run this box just like this, your previous setup would work if you need extra flow though.Keep it like this? Will it still break the syphon this way? This is my first sump setup, I’m used to AIO tanks, lol... yes the red is the emergency and the other is the return?
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ReeferRod
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Also another question, if I use the original design and implement the 1/8 inch hole to break the siphon. I should use no glue to join the pipe in the inside the overflow box, correct? I can just leave the elbows connected as is?
I run a Herbie and there is no reason to put a hole or have the elbows on the overflow pipes. What are you trying to accomplish with this design versus the normal open pipe design? Just trying to figure out what you are really needing help with.
Snoopy 67
Valuable Member
Again, no elbows needed, the 1 thing that IS NEEDED is a GATE VALVE on the siphon pipe, NOT A BALL VALVE.
The siphon drain should have no more that a 6" difference in height from the emergency drain.
Inside the box no glue needed.
gmacreef.com/herbie-overflow-reef-tank-plumbing-method-basics/
The siphon drain should have no more that a 6" difference in height from the emergency drain.
Inside the box no glue needed.
gmacreef.com/herbie-overflow-reef-tank-plumbing-method-basics/
Coolcasino
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There is no siphon break in the overflow box. Some reefers drill a hole there so that line doesn't become a full siphon. The return line... the pipe that is connected to your return pump... that's the line that you could drill a hole on the elbow that's inside the tank to break a siphon. Depending on the size of your sump and how high the water is, you might not need a siphon break. All the water that drains might be ok in your sump. You can always pull the plug on your return pump and test.
I found my emergency drain (I call it my open standpipe drain as I'm running a Bean Animal) is quieter with the elbow as in the first picture.
The water will only be at the bottom of the horizontal part of the elbow and the hole will only be under water if the primary drain fails. When water first goes over the top of the emergency drain the hole will make noise alerting you to the problem. When the water completely covers the elbow it will convert to a full siphon.
The water will only be at the bottom of the horizontal part of the elbow and the hole will only be under water if the primary drain fails. When water first goes over the top of the emergency drain the hole will make noise alerting you to the problem. When the water completely covers the elbow it will convert to a full siphon.
Coolcasino
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Correct. All you need is a ball valve on your full siphon line to control the height of the water lever in the overflow box.
ca1ore
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FWIW, using a gate valve makes adjustments easier but in a pinch you certainly can use a ball valve.
I use a ball valve and would highly recommend getting a GATE VALVE! Mine is an Asahi valve so very easy to tweek, but I will change it out when I get the desire.
