herbie question

[Trucker Den]

Where should I put my gate valve on a herbie setup? I have a RR with dual overflows. Should I put them closer to the sump or closer to the overflows? I have seen them both ways, what are the pros and cons? Thanks for your help.

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

I'm not sure as I haven't run a Herbie drain personally. I believe it doesn't matter where you put it though. With a Herbie-style overflow, the purpose of the valve is to tune the pipe to produce a full siphon. This reduces noise and bubbles. I don't think the position of the valve with regard to the overflow or the sump has much of an impact on the effectiveness.

But, I'm open to correction. #ReefSquad, anyone have more experience with Herbie drains?

 

[Crabs McJones]

I agree with @chipmunkofdoom2 I've seen them right out of the overflow box and right before the sump, both have worked well. Basically put it where you have room for the valve. Mine is about 4 inches off my overflow box

 

[reefing_rob]

Where should I put my gate valve on a herbie setup? I have a RR with dual overflows. Should I put them closer to the sump or closer to the overflows? I have seen them both ways, what are the pros and cons? Thanks for your help.

I have mine close to the sump. So it is easier to hide and plumb

 

[Crabs McJones]

Oh and welcome to R2R!

#WelcometoR2R

 

[CDavmd]

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23].... you’re missing the yeti

 

[WWIII]

Agree with the fellas above, in that it really doesn't matter all that much. I have a 200 gallon with dual corner overflows. I have 2 gate valves, 1 on each corner. My sump is in the basement. My valves are also in the basement, because that was most convenient for me. Works fine, going on 3 years.

Welcome to R2R!!!

 

[Firemanreefkeeper]

there's mine, I put it where I could fit it

 

[Lovemyreef2015]

Welcome to R2R

 

[TheEngineer]

Put the valve where you can reach it, it is out of the way for you to work in the sump and it won’t get splashed. You’ll adjust this very rarely, if at all, so it is better to have it in a slightly less convenient spot if it means more working room.

I’ve run a herbie on several tanks now. Love em.

 

[Greybeard]

With the tank directly above the sump, short run of pipe, everyone responding that it doesn't matter is correct. The longer the pipe run gets, the more it matters. If you're running a Herbie or BeAnAnimal drain (they're the same, plus or minus a dry emergency drain) to a distant sump, the closer the valve is to the sump, the easier it is going to be to get rid of the air in the pipe.

 

[Geebs19]

I would put it wherever is easiest to access it.

 

[ca1ore]

With the tank directly above the sump, short run of pipe, everyone responding that it doesn't matter is correct. The longer the pipe run gets, the more it matters. If you're running a Herbie or BeAnAnimal drain (they're the same, plus or minus a dry emergency drain) to a distant sump, the closer the valve is to the sump, the easier it is going to be to get rid of the air in the pipe.

Precisely what I was going to say ..... with a basement sump, valve at the sump is better

 

[Danj]

Another consideration if the sump isn't near the tank: it's handy to be able to observe the level in the overflow box when tuning the valve position. You're basically adjusting the pump so that the water level is above the siphon inlet but not above the emergency drain inlet, with sufficient margins. So having the valve somewhat nearby to the overflow box makes that tuning process more convenient

 

[WWIII]

I've heard that the further water has to drop vertically, the more flow the pipe will handle? No idea if this is true or not? Like I said above, convenience is more important. I adjust mine every once in a while, maybe like once a month, open them up to clear them out and set them again.

 

[ca1ore]

I've heard that the further water has to drop vertically, the more flow the pipe will handle? No idea if this is true or not?.

The length of the ‘drop’ will affect the maximum flow because the weight of the water pulling on the top of the siphon. I’m less certain that the location of the gate valve will affect this or not.

 

[Greybeard]

The length of the ‘drop’ will affect the maximum flow because the weight of the water pulling on the top of the siphon. I’m less certain that the location of the gate valve will affect this or not.

Correct. Deeper water column, more pressure. More pressure, higher flow rates. Miners used to catch snow melt in a series of progressively smaller diameter pipes as it ran down a mountain. The resulting pressure could wash away tons of dirt and rock per hour. Literally leveling mountains, in time.

Location of the gate valve won't affect this.

The reason why you want the gate valve close to the sump on long drops has to do with the pressure changes surrounding a partially closed valve. Place a restriction in a line, you get a pressure drop after the restriction. This tends to trap air in the pipe. The longer the distance to the end, larger the pipe diameter, and lower the flow rate is, the more air gets trapped. The air wants to go up, but because of the high flow through the valve, it can't get through. The water flow wants to drag the air down, but it's got to overcome buoyancy to do so. The longer the distance is after the restriction, the more likely it is that you'll never get all the air out, and the drain will be noisy.

 

[KenO]

I have a sump pit in my fish room. I have 2 tanks plumbed into the pit. Both tanks have deep overflows with bean style silencers. The larger tank (250 gallons) has about a 6 foot drop and a 45’ horizontal run to the pit. The smaller tank (130 gallon) has about a 6 foot drop and a 25’ horizontal run to the pit. I have my gate valves right in the pit just about the water. Both tanks will settle into full siphon after a power cycle within 30-60 seconds.

 

[TheEngineer]

I don't think I've seen a sump pit before. Pretty cool! #reefsquad

 

[ihavecrabs]

With the tank directly above the sump, short run of pipe, everyone responding that it doesn't matter is correct. The longer the pipe run gets, the more it matters. If you're running a Herbie or BeAnAnimal drain (they're the same, plus or minus a dry emergency drain) to a distant sump, the closer the valve is to the sump, the easier it is going to be to get rid of the air in the pipe.

This...