Hi phosphates

[Spdjnky]

About six months ago I read did my refugium I put sand and live rock in the bottom of it since that time the sand has calcified hard as a rock I have been told that this is most likely the source of my unwanted extra Phosphates
Could this be true

 

[Coralreefer1]

It is more a direct correlation of your alkalinity and pH being too high and magnesium being too low. One or more of these events is causing a supersaturation or calcium carbonate in your water to precipitate into your sand bed among other places.

 

[KrisReef]

I don't see how those two instances would be directly related except that some of your parameters seem to be out of whack. Are you growing phytos in the fuge for export, and did the live rock impact this?

Or was the live rock and addition from an old tank, so that the rock is releasing phosphates? That might be a possibility, but that is not related to the sand into cement issue so much.

 

[Spdjnky]

It is more a direct correlation of your alkalinity and pH being too high and magnesium being too low. One or more of these events is causing a supersaturation or calcium carbonate in your water to precipitate into your sand bed among other places.

Thank you although I'm not really sure where to go or understand this my alkalinity has been very steady I've been Checking it regularly and trying to maintain 9 dKH and my magnesium has been high in fact I just talked to red sea because I have been using coral pro and my mag has been high up around 1520 ppm it's not the salt my SG was 1.027..As far as PH haven't payed much attention as my ph here is 7.9-8.1 really don't have a good way until now because I just got my new APEX I am really hoping this will help a little. But the sand in the fuge getting hard like that and come to think about it I have had spots in my main display that In have removed over the last few years.
All I do know for sure is that up until maybe 3-4 months ago I had never had trouble with Phosphates. When I found that my RO membrane was no good I thought that was it fixed wrong I have payed more attention to making sure I don't overfeed but my PO4 just seems harder to control that's another thing I was told that my tank is just 3 years old last month and it's about the time that this starts happening.
just trying to learn

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Where do your dosers attach?
In the fuge ?

Any idea of the return rate?

My first though is it’s precipitating onto the sand and not mixing.

 

[Spdjnky]

I don't see how those two instances would be directly related except that some of your parameters seem to be out of whack. Are you growing phytos in the fuge for export, and did the live rock impact this?

Or was the live rock and addition from an old tank, so that the rock is releasing phosphates? That might be a possibility, but that is not related to the sand into cement issue so much.

Live rock was from LFS should have been fine as I have used it before. And yes I am using OceanMagik Live Phytoplankton but the sand had already been hard before I started. I am going to remove and go bare bottom along with splitting it up into 4 sections for different types of algae.

 

[Spdjnky]

Where do your dosers attach?
In the fuge ?

Any idea of the return rate?

My first though is it’s precipitating onto the sand and not mixing.

NO dosers right over the return pump

 

[Spdjnky]

Where do your dosers attach?
In the fuge ?

Any idea of the return rate?

My first though is it’s precipitating onto the sand and not mixing.

Return rate I will be honest there I am not sure of any of my exact flows but thru the sump is slow

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

The hardening is not an indication of the sand being a source of phosphate. IMO, hardening suggests it is more likely a sink for phosphate than a source because it suggests ongoing precipitation and formation of fresh surfaces that will bind phosphate.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

The hardening is not an indication of the sand being a source of phosphate. IMO, hardening suggests it is more likely a sink for phosphate than a source because it suggests ongoing precipitation and formation of fresh surfaces that will bind phosphate.

My assumption on this not being phosphate would be that it could only be possible if a lanthanum product had been used and not properly mechanically removed.

The op had not indicated any such use.

Wouldn’t phosphate be evenly distributed on all aragonite surfaces in the tank? Does Po4 have enough weight to sink in water ?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

My assumption on this not being phosphate would be that it could only be possible if a lanthanum product had been used and not properly mechanically removed.

The op had not indicated any such use.

Wouldn’t phosphate be evenly distributed on all aragonite surfaces in the tank? Does Po4 have enough weight to sink in water ?

Dissolved phosphate does not ever sink. Particulates can.

I don't think particulates of lanthanum phosphate/carbonate are particularly going to attach to each other and harden together. They may certainly accumulate in the sand.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Dissolved phosphate does not ever sink. Particulates can.

I don't think particulates of lanthanum phosphate/carbonate are particularly going to attach to each other and harden together. They may certainly accumulate in the sand.

Can you elaborate on this process please ?

The hardening is not an indication of the sand being a source of phosphate. IMO, hardening suggests it is more likely a sink for phosphate than a source because it suggests ongoing precipitation and formation of fresh surfaces that will bind phosphate.

How would the op not have hardened sand in the display?

 

[VSVP bet]

GO BILLS !!!

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

GO BILLS !!!

This is true.

 

[Spdjnky]

I am going to take it out and go bare bottom maybe that will help ? I must be doing something wrong because I just can't seem to keep PO4 down. Now I am trying Phosphate-E. Have under dosed and PO4 has not moved does anyone know how long it takes to work. I don't want to over dose
Think I am just going to go back to GFO

 

[Spdjnky]

The hardening is not an indication of the sand being a source of phosphate. IMO, hardening suggests it is more likely a sink for phosphate than a source because it suggests ongoing precipitation and formation of fresh surfaces that will bind phosphate.

I really don't understand allot of what you are saying but I am wondering why it happened I mean the sand hardening. I thought it was common to do sand on the bottom of a refugium and if so then what happened to me can't be common right? Also does this have anything to do with the fact that Sea Lettuce grows like crazy in my fuge but I put some Red Gracilaria Feeding Algae from LA in and it's gone just like the Ogo that I tried from Algae barn.
I had wanted to split my refugium up in 4 sections for different types of Algae but now I'm wondering what else will grow? I am using a Kessil H380 light set on grow 12 hrs a day.