HIGH END Tenuis Hoarder

[ScottB]

Here is a thread I found where someone sent out IO salt for an icp. On his results Iron was not detectable, which is not the same as the results in the article linked by @wmb0003. Which makes me wonder what results should be believed. I currently use Reef Crystals and I think I'm going to switch to the basic purple bucket Instant Ocean. I started off using Reef Crystals because I assumed it would help with trace elements, but I have started dosing those so I don't care if the salt has elevated levels or not.
If you send off a sample of IO for testing please let me know the results.

Instant Ocean ICP Test Results, click to see

I submitted an ICP test for a 30 gallon mix of Instant Ocean sea salt. From the results Instant Ocean is low in Calcium, Potassium, Barium, Iodine, Molybdenum, and Manganese but is high in Tin. I am not sure why they read my salinity at 32 as I calibrate my refractometer with AquaCraft seawater...

www.reef2reef.com

I use IORC. I've never sent out fresh NSW, but my tanks always measure zero iron Fe. Even my display which does not have a refugium.

 

[Gtinnel]

I use IORC. I've never sent out fresh NSW, but my tanks always measure zero iron Fe. Even my display which does not have a refugium.

The iron isn't the whole reason. I also don't like how high the major elements are on my NSW. I've been considering switching for a while now. I fairly recently started dosing trace elements and my intentions were to wait a while and send out an icp. I still think I'm going to switch salts and then wait a few months and send out an icp.

 

[ScottB]

I haven't yet found a reason to switch from IORC. It mixes MUCH higher than I run, but at 15% WCs that isn't a problem for me. If I have to do a BIG WC, then yeah, I have to knock down the dKH which is a small bother.

My LFS gets me a pallet price that is hard to leave too.

 

[Gtinnel]

I haven't yet found a reason to switch from IORC. It mixes MUCH higher than I run, but at 15% WCs that isn't a problem for me. If I have to do a BIG WC, then yeah, I have to knock down the dKH which is a small bother.

My LFS gets me a pallet price that is hard to leave too.

Honestly if I were to guess I'd say I won't see much of a difference either way

 

[ChumminghamsReef]

Hey guys,

just here to share my experience with the exact same issue. In July of 2021 TM started flooding into my area again and oh what a relief as the pandemic had caused such supply chain issues with this company I have supported for 6 years I thought that the brand had gotten so popular perhaps the constant out of stock nature of the salt was going to be permanent. In august of 2021 I started suffering massive losses of sps corals and clams from an unknown cause. Every waking moment of my free time was spent ripping my hair out trying to figure out what the cause was of my coral death. I never wanted to blame the salt. In mid September I made a post about my issue finally questioning the salt and having retrospectively appreciating that all my new salt was from turkey I had pretty much already solidified my diagnosis after 6 weeks of complete and utter pain and demoralization trying to work up the problem. I made the post on askbrs Facebook page in September 2021 and no one took it seriously. By the time I got my new salt brand I had lost an approximate 40-50k in coral value of a collection which took me 10 years of blood, sweat and food deprivation to achieve. I did a water change with the new salt on arrival and polyps I hadnt seen in six weeks came out immediately. After two days of water changes equaling to 20 percent of 450 gallons everything that was pealing stopped immediately and colors started to show up again about 12 days later. The turn around was incredible. The only thing I changed was the salt.

The agony of this circumstance was the most intense experience of my life as my corals help feed me and my animals. The stress was unbelievable. At the end of the experience tropic offered me 440 dollars for the four buckets of salt that Killed half my collection and mother colonies which took 10 years to grow. Everytime I see a post and a reignition of this discussion about tropics recent shady dealings I cringe. Outside of the measly 440 dollars they sent me they offered no real acknowledgment or apology that they HAVE A BIG PROBLEM. I live in the Chicago area and am one of the largest if not the largest high end coral collector and vendor in the Midwest. I put everyone and their mother on this salt. I wouldn’t even give advice to you if you weren’t using tropic. If you were having problems in your tank and weren’t on tropic I would literally make you switch to tropic before working with you. I posted in my local club of 5k members to warn everyone and most people took it seriously. Some didn’t initially and now THEY ARE USING THIS SALT TO SALT THEIR DRIVEWAYS because the same exact thing started happening with their tanks. They made a switch to a new brand and things turned around immediately. It pains me greatly to see other people losing their reef to this corporate BS and it’s clear as day they are cutting corners with their new production line. Since September I have had over 100 people in my dm with the exact same story as what Shane just laid out in his post and what happened to me. And in the past 4 months they have done nothing to remedy the situation. They are in complete denial and think their product is the same as always when clearly it is not. Post after post after post on FB has proven this to be true of people finding random things being off with their salt mix and tropic doesn’t consider this to be proof of a problem they need to address. I look back at this experience and besides the utter pain and feelings of horror it brings up in me I feel disappointed mostly. I was a huge asset to turn the entire Chicagoland and Midwest market towards this company and after this experience I will never ever ever be brand loyal ever again. They should be held accountable and a class action lawsuit should take place. I lost 40k at a minimum and that doesn’t account for the mental toll it took on me and my career at its peak.

Sincerely,
Ryan Cunningham MD MBS

Owner and Operator of Chumminghamsreef

 

[SWherrey]

Hey guys,

just here to share my experience with the exact same issue. In July of 2021 TM started flooding into my area again and oh what a relief as the pandemic had caused such supply chain issues with this company I have supported for 6 years I thought that the brand had gotten so popular perhaps the constant out of stock nature of the salt was going to be permanent. In august of 2021 I started suffering massive losses of sps corals and clams from an unknown cause. Every waking moment of my free time was spent ripping my hair out trying to figure out what the cause was of my coral death. I never wanted to blame the salt. In mid September I made a post about my issue finally questioning the salt and having retrospectively appreciating that all my new salt was from turkey I had pretty much already solidified my diagnosis after 6 weeks of complete and utter pain and demoralization trying to work up the problem. I made the post on askbrs Facebook page in September 2021 and no one took it seriously. By the time I got my new salt brand I had lost an approximate 40-50k in coral value of a collection which took me 10 years of blood, sweat and food deprivation to achieve. I did a water change with the new salt on arrival and polyps I hadnt seen in six weeks came out immediately. After two days of water changes equaling to 20 percent of 450 gallons everything that was pealing stopped immediately and colors started to show up again about 12 days later. The turn around was incredible. The only thing I changed was the salt.

The agony of this circumstance was the most intense experience of my life as my corals help feed me and my animals. The stress was unbelievable. At the end of the experience tropic offered me 440 dollars for the four buckets of salt that Killed half my collection and mother colonies which took 10 years to grow. Everytime I see a post and a reignition of this discussion about tropics recent shady dealings I cringe. Outside of the measly 440 dollars they sent me they offered no real acknowledgment or apology that they HAVE A BIG PROBLEM. I live in the Chicago area and am one of the largest if not the largest high end coral collector and vendor in the Midwest. I put everyone and their mother on this salt. I wouldn’t even give advice to you if you weren’t using tropic. If you were having problems in your tank and weren’t on tropic I would literally make you switch to tropic before working with you. I posted in my local club of 5k members to warn everyone and most people took it seriously. Some didn’t initially and now THEY ARE USING THIS SALT TO SALT THEIR DRIVEWAYS because the same exact thing started happening with their tanks. They made a switch to a new brand and things turned around immediately. It pains me greatly to see other people losing their reef to this corporate BS and it’s clear as day they are cutting corners with their new production line. Since September I have had over 100 people in my dm with the exact same story as what Shane just laid out in his post and what happened to me. And in the past 4 months they have done nothing to remedy the situation. They are in complete denial and think their product is the same as always when clearly it is not. Post after post after post on FB has proven this to be true of people finding random things being off with their salt mix and tropic doesn’t consider this to be proof of a problem they need to address. I look back at this experience and besides the utter pain and feelings of horror it brings up in me I feel disappointed mostly. I was a huge asset to turn the entire Chicagoland and Midwest market towards this company and after this experience I will never ever ever be brand loyal ever again. They should be held accountable and a class action lawsuit should take place. I lost 40k at a minimum and that doesn’t account for the mental toll it took on me and my career at its peak.

Sincerely,
Ryan Cunningham MD MBS

Owner and Operator of Chumminghamsreef

Didn’t you start a thread or respond to a thread with photos. I can not recall… would you be able to post the link to that post? I don’t doubt you had issues as i ran into similar issues as well.

 

[ScottB]

Hey guys,

just here to share my experience with the exact same issue. In July of 2021 TM started flooding into my area again and oh what a relief as the pandemic had caused such supply chain issues with this company I have supported for 6 years I thought that the brand had gotten so popular perhaps the constant out of stock nature of the salt was going to be permanent. In august of 2021 I started suffering massive losses of sps corals and clams from an unknown cause. Every waking moment of my free time was spent ripping my hair out trying to figure out what the cause was of my coral death. I never wanted to blame the salt. In mid September I made a post about my issue finally questioning the salt and having retrospectively appreciating that all my new salt was from turkey I had pretty much already solidified my diagnosis after 6 weeks of complete and utter pain and demoralization trying to work up the problem. I made the post on askbrs Facebook page in September 2021 and no one took it seriously. By the time I got my new salt brand I had lost an approximate 40-50k in coral value of a collection which took me 10 years of blood, sweat and food deprivation to achieve. I did a water change with the new salt on arrival and polyps I hadnt seen in six weeks came out immediately. After two days of water changes equaling to 20 percent of 450 gallons everything that was pealing stopped immediately and colors started to show up again about 12 days later. The turn around was incredible. The only thing I changed was the salt.

The agony of this circumstance was the most intense experience of my life as my corals help feed me and my animals. The stress was unbelievable. At the end of the experience tropic offered me 440 dollars for the four buckets of salt that Killed half my collection and mother colonies which took 10 years to grow. Everytime I see a post and a reignition of this discussion about tropics recent shady dealings I cringe. Outside of the measly 440 dollars they sent me they offered no real acknowledgment or apology that they HAVE A BIG PROBLEM. I live in the Chicago area and am one of the largest if not the largest high end coral collector and vendor in the Midwest. I put everyone and their mother on this salt. I wouldn’t even give advice to you if you weren’t using tropic. If you were having problems in your tank and weren’t on tropic I would literally make you switch to tropic before working with you. I posted in my local club of 5k members to warn everyone and most people took it seriously. Some didn’t initially and now THEY ARE USING THIS SALT TO SALT THEIR DRIVEWAYS because the same exact thing started happening with their tanks. They made a switch to a new brand and things turned around immediately. It pains me greatly to see other people losing their reef to this corporate BS and it’s clear as day they are cutting corners with their new production line. Since September I have had over 100 people in my dm with the exact same story as what Shane just laid out in his post and what happened to me. And in the past 4 months they have done nothing to remedy the situation. They are in complete denial and think their product is the same as always when clearly it is not. Post after post after post on FB has proven this to be true of people finding random things being off with their salt mix and tropic doesn’t consider this to be proof of a problem they need to address. I look back at this experience and besides the utter pain and feelings of horror it brings up in me I feel disappointed mostly. I was a huge asset to turn the entire Chicagoland and Midwest market towards this company and after this experience I will never ever ever be brand loyal ever again. They should be held accountable and a class action lawsuit should take place. I lost 40k at a minimum and that doesn’t account for the mental toll it took on me and my career at its peak.

Sincerely,
Ryan Cunningham MD MBS

Owner and Operator of Chumminghamsreef

Sorry for all that grief. It would be hard for me to pin fault on something so basic, but you guys have me feeling good about my decade with IORC and all of its brown residue and elevated lithium.

You don't mention your new source. RSBB seems comparable; is that what you chose?

 

[drawman]

Hey guys,

just here to share my experience with the exact same issue. In July of 2021 TM started flooding into my area again and oh what a relief as the pandemic had caused such supply chain issues with this company I have supported for 6 years I thought that the brand had gotten so popular perhaps the constant out of stock nature of the salt was going to be permanent. In august of 2021 I started suffering massive losses of sps corals and clams from an unknown cause. Every waking moment of my free time was spent ripping my hair out trying to figure out what the cause was of my coral death. I never wanted to blame the salt. In mid September I made a post about my issue finally questioning the salt and having retrospectively appreciating that all my new salt was from turkey I had pretty much already solidified my diagnosis after 6 weeks of complete and utter pain and demoralization trying to work up the problem. I made the post on askbrs Facebook page in September 2021 and no one took it seriously. By the time I got my new salt brand I had lost an approximate 40-50k in coral value of a collection which took me 10 years of blood, sweat and food deprivation to achieve. I did a water change with the new salt on arrival and polyps I hadnt seen in six weeks came out immediately. After two days of water changes equaling to 20 percent of 450 gallons everything that was pealing stopped immediately and colors started to show up again about 12 days later. The turn around was incredible. The only thing I changed was the salt.

The agony of this circumstance was the most intense experience of my life as my corals help feed me and my animals. The stress was unbelievable. At the end of the experience tropic offered me 440 dollars for the four buckets of salt that Killed half my collection and mother colonies which took 10 years to grow. Everytime I see a post and a reignition of this discussion about tropics recent shady dealings I cringe. Outside of the measly 440 dollars they sent me they offered no real acknowledgment or apology that they HAVE A BIG PROBLEM. I live in the Chicago area and am one of the largest if not the largest high end coral collector and vendor in the Midwest. I put everyone and their mother on this salt. I wouldn’t even give advice to you if you weren’t using tropic. If you were having problems in your tank and weren’t on tropic I would literally make you switch to tropic before working with you. I posted in my local club of 5k members to warn everyone and most people took it seriously. Some didn’t initially and now THEY ARE USING THIS SALT TO SALT THEIR DRIVEWAYS because the same exact thing started happening with their tanks. They made a switch to a new brand and things turned around immediately. It pains me greatly to see other people losing their reef to this corporate BS and it’s clear as day they are cutting corners with their new production line. Since September I have had over 100 people in my dm with the exact same story as what Shane just laid out in his post and what happened to me. And in the past 4 months they have done nothing to remedy the situation. They are in complete denial and think their product is the same as always when clearly it is not. Post after post after post on FB has proven this to be true of people finding random things being off with their salt mix and tropic doesn’t consider this to be proof of a problem they need to address. I look back at this experience and besides the utter pain and feelings of horror it brings up in me I feel disappointed mostly. I was a huge asset to turn the entire Chicagoland and Midwest market towards this company and after this experience I will never ever ever be brand loyal ever again. They should be held accountable and a class action lawsuit should take place. I lost 40k at a minimum and that doesn’t account for the mental toll it took on me and my career at its peak.

Sincerely,
Ryan Cunningham MD MBS

Owner and Operator of Chumminghamsreef

Unfortunately I've noticed something similar but mine was on a much smaller scale - we chatted on fb. I noticed browning and stn of several (but not all) acros that was progressive with every water change after opening a new bag of TMP (this box was marked as Germany). Once I switched acros have been coloring up with every water change.

It could be the iron or that could be totally coincidental. I think whatever is going on is going to be very tough to pin down. I won't call myself brand loyal but I've really liked TMP so here's hoping they figure it out!

 

[Dhaleillama]

2 water changes over the last 5 days with red sea blue bucket and all my sps are happy again and starting to show polyps, have not have polyp extension in many months. Another week or two and I'll do another ICP test and see the huge difference.

 

[Hydrored]

I did a 40 gallon water change with a different salt brand and could see immediate polyp extension, I’ve had some losses recently only on tenuis so going to do another tomorrow and send an ICP

 

[Dhaleillama]

I did a 40 gallon water change with a different salt brand and could see immediate polyp extension, I’ve had some losses recently only on tenuis so going to do another tomorrow and send an ICP

im going to do another water change friday, then monday send out an ICP

 

[drawman]

im going to do another water change friday, then monday send out an ICP

Have you noticed anything on your previous ICPs?

 

[Jcascioli]

 

[Hydrored]

Have you noticed anything on your previous ICPs?

My last 2 ICP’s showed high vanadium and manganese. I send an ICP every 3 weeks. Oddly enough only have tenuis losses and all my other acro and LPS are fine. Live and learn I guess.

 

[SBB Corals]

Thanks for the info and all the ICP test. Interesting to see the Triton ICP for ESV CAL and ESV ALK.
Out of curiosity why did you rule out the ESV Saltmix and Brightwell NeoMarine Salt?

I Use to use red sea blue bucket and so liked it before. I didn't rule those other salts out i just never used them . Also in talking to some respectable growers those salts ESV and Neomarine never came up....

 

[SBB Corals]

Did you find your icp test to match that provided by red sea for the batch?

Interesting question and i didn't look at this. Does red sea provide all the elements per batch? or do you mean just the alk, calc and mag? if they provide those results where do we find them?

 

[SBB Corals]

My last 2 ICP’s showed high vanadium and manganese. I send an ICP every 3 weeks. Oddly enough only have tenuis losses and all my other acro and LPS are fine. Live and learn I guess.

Breaks out hear to hear you losing tenuis!

 

[Frank RiZZo]

Interesting question and i didn't look at this. Does red sea provide all the elements per batch? or do you mean just the alk, calc and mag? if they provide those results where do we find them?

Go to Red Sea mybatchresults and type in the number under the lid

 

[Kingston]

Now I am wondering if this could be my issue. 2 years old 450g tank with TMRP from day one. Tried acros at 1 year and failed. Gave myself a break to let the tank mature for another year. Tried another batch of acros the past black friday sale and they basically hanged on for 4-6 weeks and slowly died with whitening/bleaching from the base. I never paid attention to where mine was coming from but I know they were in boxes lately instead of buckets earlier on. I am thinking of overhauling my whole system. Maybe a new salt mix should be in my plan? Question is which one?

 

[Kingston]

Just looked at my buckets and every single one was manufactured in Turkey!!