High Nitrate Mixed Reef 50-70ppm

phildoingthings · Aug 24, 2023

Hey all,

Been running a RS Reefer 250 G2 for about a year now.
Pretty much self-sustaining at this point...I do small 5 gallon water changes maybe once or two times a month. I'm a believer in "if it isn't broke don't fix it".
I have a huge colony of GSP that is thriving, as well as a few torches, a large anemone, some favia and a trachy that are thriving as well.
Fish Stock is 2 clowns, Pintail Fairy Wrasse, Juvi Caribbean Blue Tang, Diamond Goby, and a Bangai Cardinal.
Have a large clean up crew (approx 30 mixed snails and hermits, cleaner shrimp, 2 emerald crabs.
Everyone is happy, healthy, eating no problem, good coral growth and almost zero nuisance algae growth. I tested my water for the first time in like 3 months (lol) and my Nitrates were around 60. I'm running an oversized skimmer, UV sterilizer, and a Red Sea Roller Mat for mechanical filtration.
I have an auto feeder dumping a small amount of pellet food 2x a day, and I spot feed frozen brine/mysis 2x a week with reefroids and garlic.

Question is: How do I lower my Nitrates and Phosphate to around 20 without chemicals, and secondly, if everyone is healthy do I even bother?

Dom · Aug 24, 2023

phildoingthings said:
Hey all,

Been running a RS Reefer 250 G2 for about a year now.
Pretty much self-sustaining at this point...I do small 5 gallon water changes maybe once or two times a month. I'm a believer in "if it isn't broke don't fix it".
I have a huge colony of GSP that is thriving, as well as a few torches, a large anemone, some favia and a trachy that are thriving as well.
Fish Stock is 2 clowns, Pintail Fairy Wrasse, Juvi Caribbean Blue Tang, Diamond Goby, and a Bangai Cardinal.
Have a large clean up crew (approx 30 mixed snails and hermits, cleaner shrimp, 2 emerald crabs.
Everyone is happy, healthy, eating no problem, good coral growth and almost zero nuisance algae growth. I tested my water for the first time in like 3 months (lol) and my Nitrates were around 60. I'm running an oversized skimmer, UV sterilizer, and a Red Sea Roller Mat for mechanical filtration.
I have an auto feeder dumping a small amount of pellet food 2x a day, and I spot feed frozen brine/mysis 2x a week with reefroids and garlic.

Question is: How do I lower my Nitrates and Phosphate to around 20 without chemicals, and secondly, if everyone is healthy do I even bother?

Your water changes are too small and too infrequent. Some things to try:

20% FAITHFUL, WEEKLY water changes. 10 gallons per week for you should be fine. This will help you to export the built Nitrates.
Run a refugium. Macro algae will take a portion of nitrates in the water column.

Do this and monitor your chemistry for the next 4 weeks. I'm sure you will see an improvement.

bushdoc · Aug 24, 2023

If you and all your aquatic pets are happy, I wouldn’t get ballistic about it, but here’s what you could do to slowly lower nutrients:

more frequent and larger water changes
less reef roids
less automatic feeding( some food may land in sump) and more manual feeding

phildoingthings · Aug 24, 2023

Dom said:
Your water changes are too small and too infrequent. Some things to try:

20% FAITHFUL, WEEKLY water changes. 10 gallons per week for you should be fine. This will help your to export the build up of Nitrates.

Run a refugium. Macro algae will take a portion of nitrates in the water column.

Do this and monitor your chemistry for the next 4 weeks. I'm sure you will see an improvement.

Oh I know they're too infrequent haha. I will up the changes, it just felt like everyone was doing well so why disrupt anything, but I do know the value of water changes.

Problem with the RSR 250 is lack of sump space, very difficult to run a fuge. I've seen people modifying the RS ATO reservoir to run a fuge. Played with the idea a few times, now considering it more seriously.

Thanks for your input.

phildoingthings · Aug 24, 2023

bushdoc said:
If you and all your aquatic pets are happy, I wouldn’t get ballistic about it, but here’s what you could do to slowly lower nutrients:

more frequent and larger water changes

less reef roids

less automatic feeding( some food may land in sump) and more manual feeding

I considered removing the auto feeder entirely, its just so convenient. I used to feed only frozen but was told that Frozen can be high in fat content which could lead to the same issue.

Reefroids maybe 1x a week instead?

Dom · Aug 24, 2023

phildoingthings said:
Oh I know they're too infrequent haha. I will up the changes, it just felt like everyone was doing well so why disrupt anything, but I do know the value of water changes.

Problem with the RSR 250 is lack of sump space, very difficult to run a fuge. I've seen people modifying the RS ATO reservoir to run a fuge. Played with the idea a few times, now considering it more seriously.

Thanks for your input.

Can you provide a picture of your sump area? I may have a few suggestions.

thedon986 · Aug 24, 2023

Do you know what your phosphate level is? I dont see it mentioned. In place of some water changes you could start carbon dosing via or vodka, vinegar or something like NP Bacto Balace.

phildoingthings · Aug 24, 2023

Dom said:
Can you provide a picture of your sump area? I may have a few suggestions.

phildoingthings · Aug 24, 2023

thedon986 said:
Do you know what your phosphate level is? I dont see it mentioned. In place of some water changes you could start carbon dosing via or vodka, vinegar or something like NP Bacto Balace.

1.36 on Red Sea Test Kit.

Whats the vodka/vinegar method?

Spare time · Aug 24, 2023

I'd swap the skimmer for a refugium or carbon dose. I prefer a refugium over carbon dosing as it handles phosphates better, but if your phosphate is not high, then carbon dosing or biopellets would be my choice. Biopellets are easier to be lazy with imo.

phildoingthings · Aug 24, 2023

Spare time said:
I'd swap the skimmer for a refugium or carbon dose. I prefer a refugium over carbon dosing as it handles phosphates better.

I actually considered the skimmer vs refugium option. I've gotten very mixed opinions on it however. I am all about biological filtration if possible. And +1 on fuge over carbon. What are you running on your system?

Dom · Aug 24, 2023

phildoingthings said:

Wow... they really pack everything in there!

Here is something I've done on the past.

Fluval makes a hang on breeder box. Here is the link:
I turned it into a refugium with a small grow light and tiny (8gph) return pump. Worked very well.

Just something to consider.

Dom · Aug 24, 2023

phildoingthings said:
I actually considered the skimmer vs refugium option. I've gotten very mixed opinions on it however. I am all about biological filtration if possible. And +1 on fuge over carbon. What are you running on your system?

Eliminating a skimmer in favor of the refugium is an option. But I ask you to consider all that you lose by eliminating the skimmer, such as oxygenating the tank.

phildoingthings · Aug 24, 2023

Dom said:
Wow... they really pack everything in there!

Here is something I've done on the past.

Fluval makes a hang on breeder box. Here is the link:
I turned it into a refugium with a small grow light and tiny (8gph) return pump. Worked very well.

Just something to consider.

WOW I love this idea actually. As much as I would love to remove a skimmer this is a definite viable option. So you just drop the pump into the first compartment of the sump?

thedon986 · Aug 24, 2023

phildoingthings said:
1.36 on Red Sea Test Kit.

Whats the vodka/vinegar method?

Wow! That's high

Here are some articles:

Reefkeeping Magazine - Vinegar Dosing Methodology for the Marine Aquarium

Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for the marine aquarist.

reefkeeping.com

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/

phildoingthings · Aug 24, 2023

Dom said:
Eliminating a skimmer in favor of the refugium is an option. But I ask you to consider all that you lose by eliminating the skimmer, such as oxygenating the tank.

Yeah I don't think I'm going to remove skimmer. It definitely gets nasty so its obviously doing something. Possible hang-on-side? fuge could be an option?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Aug 24, 2023

Some great reef aquaria have had phosphate above 1 ppm and nitrate above 100 ppm, and most reefers would be envious of the aquarium. Richard Ross’ tank comes to mind.

csturgis1989 · Aug 24, 2023

If your tank is happy then don’t chase numbers since you will probably just tick it off. I would definitely listen to the reef beef podcast where Rich Ross talks about his nutrient levels. https://youtube.com/@ReefBeefPodcast?si=-IcY-bfFW-mTNNp1

Waboss · Aug 24, 2023

My general rule is that if all the life in the tank is happy AND, it all looks good (no crazy algae issues), and nothing is SO out of balance that it could easily cause severe issues, then let it go and thrive (but keep an eye on it).

With that being said, I can't see a reason why adding a refugium would be a bad thing, so if you want to, go for it.

Spare time · Aug 24, 2023

phildoingthings said:
I actually considered the skimmer vs refugium option. I've gotten very mixed opinions on it however. I am all about biological filtration if possible. And +1 on fuge over carbon. What are you running on your system?

I run a refugium, carbon in a reactor, and filter socks. I don't do water changes except when cleaning my sump or overflow box.