High Nitrate!

[Dan_P]

Turn off ALK dosing. Make a note of how quickly ALK drops in a day. If you dosed a decent but not unsafe amount of carbon, you'll notice that pH will drop rapidly after an hour or so, and then rise back up. This is due to the increase in CO2 from bacteria.

Not sure about this interpretation. The pH can drop when vinegar is added, but the relatively rapid increase or rebound is more likely just the dilution of the acetic acid dose. Also, a rise in CO2 would decrease the pH not increase it. The rate of consumption of vinegar takes a while, much more than an hour. If you are concerned about any pH drop from dosing vinegar, then dose calcium acetate, i.e., vinegar with just enough solid kalkwasser added to bring the pH to about 10.

Then, if you test ALK, you'll notice that there was clearly ALK "added" to the tank. In my case, with ALK dosing off, with 4 packets of sugar, I got 0.3 dKH increase, so I knew that was probably too much organic carbon to dose.

When I dosed calcium acetate or vinegar in my fish only system, the alkalinity consumption decreased and became less eratic. The only time that I saw alkalinity rise, that is alkalinity production, was adding large amounts of calcium acetate which adds alkalinity itself. And using small differences of alkalinity to make decisions about dosing quantities would require that you understand the variability in your measurements. Small changes could be measurement error or natural variability in the system.

 

[DiZASTiX]

Not sure about this interpretation. The pH can drop when vinegar is added, but the relatively rapid increase or rebound is more likely just the dilution of the acetic acid dose. Also, a rise in CO2 would decrease the pH not increase it. The rate of consumption of vinegar takes a while, much more than an hour. If you are concerned about any pH drop from dosing vinegar, then dose calcium acetate, i.e., vinegar with just enough solid kalkwasser added to bring the pH to about 10.

To clarify, this is a consequence from dosing sugar packets to the aquarium. There is a cyclical wave from regular vinegar dosing and biopellets, but the sudden addition of 4 packets per 50 gal aquarium seemed is correlated with a larger than usual drop in pH. The "this is due to the increase in CO2" is describing the decline in pH portion of that quoted statement. ...To clean up this whole paragraph...

In the past, I think large amounts of vinegar dosing changed the pH as well, but I'm only referring to sugar dosing here.

I did hear about your strategy--it's a very good one, though for me, I try to keep ALK very low, and I'm not really concerned about pH drops--mostly I was pointing them out as a way to show that something's happening in the aquarium, because if you're off the charts on your nitrate test, it might be otherwise difficult to tell if your nitrate-reducing strategy is doing anything.

 

[Dan_P]

To clarify, this is a consequence from dosing sugar packets to the aquarium. There is a cyclical wave from regular vinegar dosing and biopellets, but the sudden addition of 4 packets per 50 gal aquarium seemed is correlated with a larger than usual drop in pH. The "this is due to the increase in CO2" is describing the decline in pH portion of that quoted statement. ...To clean up this whole paragraph...

In the past, I think large amounts of vinegar dosing changed the pH as well, but I'm only referring to sugar dosing here.

I did hear about your strategy--it's a very good one, though for me, I try to keep ALK very low, and I'm not really concerned about pH drops--mostly I was pointing them out as a way to show that something's happening in the aquarium, because if you're off the charts on your nitrate test, it might be otherwise difficult to tell if your nitrate-reducing strategy is doing anything.

Thanks for the clarification. All the bits fall into place now.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

You're "off the charts" for the API and RedSea test kits. The RedSea kit only goes to 64 ppm with high range testing. With 0 or near-0 phosphates, and over 64 ppm RedSea-tested nitrates, I did the following:

1. Purchase an ATS (ClearWater works great)
2. Dose vinegar (auto)
3. Use biopellets (reactor)
4. Manually dose sugar, initially to the point where I can see a white bacterial mulm, then cut back. For me, I know that's about 3 packets for roughly 50 gal). Dose Zeovit Bio-Mate if y0u like, to combat mulm.
5. Check phosphate daily using Hanna checker (Low or ULR) -- if I see 0.00, I dose phosphate. Check again every day, and figure out how much you need.
6. I do dose the bacterial source from both Zeovit and AquaForest daily.

Turn off ALK dosing. Make a note of how quickly ALK drops in a day. If you dosed a decent but not unsafe amount of carbon, you'll notice that pH will drop rapidly after an hour or so, and then rise back up. This is due to the increase in CO2 from bacteria. Then, if you test ALK, you'll notice that there was clearly ALK "added" to the tank. In my case, with ALK dosing off, with 4 packets of sugar, I got 0.3 dKH increase, so I knew that was probably too much organic carbon to dose.

I lowered the dosing until ALK would be lowering, as I like a low ALK.

After only a week, RedSea test measures a lighter red, though it's still off the charts.

Notes: It's probably not necessary to do #2 with #3, and Randy specifically pointed out for other people that VSV or some combination thereof doesn't have scientific merit. One carbon source is adequate. In my case, this combination seemed to have worked well. In my experience, sugar seems to work the fastest.

Randy doesn't really like sugar dosing, and I've been using it only as a stop gap measure. It doesn't dose as easily as sugar (you'd have to melt it, and I think it might break down in your reservoir; I don't know).

All this just to recycle some safely stored nitrogen?
Why can nitrate accumulate in a well-lit system in which algae can grow, algae that do not need organic carbon and have access to a free unlimited energy source? I doubt one of the reasons may be not enough carbo-bydrates!
If nitrate-nitrogen is considered a nuisance why not simply remove it by increasing the denitrification capacity? This is easily done using BADES.

 

[DiZASTiX]

All this just to recycle some safely stored nitrogen?
Why can nitrate accumulate in a well-lit system in which algae can grow, algae that do not need organic carbon and have access to a free unlimited energy source? I doubt one of the reasons may be not enough carbo-bydrates!
If nitrate-nitrogen is considered a nuisance why not simply remove it by increasing the denitrification capacity? This is easily done using BADES.

It's not the reason. That's not correct logic. This is how I do it. One also doesn't need multiple carbon sources. I use the other ones for experimentation (I received a lot of biopellets for free).

As the first line said: this is how I do it, but I would actually recommend one carbon method, maybe paired with an ATS for long term use.

ATS was the first product I received before dosing carbon. I wouldn't de-install it just because I changed methods.

The other ways I'm sure are great ways too.

 

[Dan_P]

All this just to recycle some safely stored nitrogen?
Why can nitrate accumulate in a well-lit system in which algae can grow, algae that do not need organic carbon and have access to a free unlimited energy source? I doubt one of the reasons may be not enough carbo-bydrates!
If nitrate-nitrogen is considered a nuisance why not simply remove it by increasing the denitrification capacity? This is easily done using BADES.

Interesting. It is on my list of things to study

 

[Matt Carden]

I don't think OP is listening. She originally posted this 3 months ago.

@LisaJ21 did you figure out your nitrate problem?

 

[LisaJ21]

I don't think OP is listening. She originally posted this 3 months ago.

@LisaJ21 did you figure out your nitrate problem?

I never got notifications of all the replies until you tagged my name. Sorry everyone for not replying.
My nitrates are still high but they went down to a darker orange then deep red in the api test. I stopped dosing and just kept up with 30% water changes every week. I kind of lost hope with getting my nitrates down. My fish are all still healthy and happy, along with my snail.

I'm thinking and I'm not sure it will help any. But putting my fish in a 90 gallon tank I have and starting over with my big one. New sand, new rock, and get it all set up and ready to go, then acclimate the fish back in. Not sure if that's a dumb way of doing things...or if it will help any.

 

[Matt Carden]

It happens that u stop receiving notifications here. Maybe it has to do with how many threads your following or posts. That's why I tagged you.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Skimmers are effective in pulling DOC's out of the water, not so much in reduction of N03.

Skimmers remove DOC very selective, only+- 35% of TOC including DOC is removed, leaving +- 65% of TOC, probably hydrophilic and polar compounds The disposal capacity in terms of DOC is generally greatly overestimated.