High nitrates, low phosphates. What to do?

[CoRPS]

Let me just start by saying the tank is a 20l that I received from a buddy covered in turf algae. I mean every rock was covered. I’ve had the tank since late July/early August. I’ve since manually removed what I could and introduced turbo snails which has left me with very little to zero algae in the display. I’ve also been performing 5-10g water changes just about every week.

Tank params:
Sg: 1.027 just over 35ppt (slowly dropping this taking small amounts of water out when I feed that the ATO will correct.
Temp: steady 77F 24/7
Ph: 8.2
Alk: 7.8dkh
Calc: 415
Phos: 0.01
Nitrate: 30ish (Red Sea test, colors between 20 and 50)


Issues I’m having.
- Nitrates won’t drop much. I feed every other day and only have a cherub angel, orange spot goby and pistol shrimp.
- some algae growth in overflow. (This doesn’t bother me much)
- chaeto sees very little to no growth which I’m hoping will pull nitrates while growing.
- slow growth in everything but some zoas.
- one of my caps looks to be getting more pale. The other seems very vibrant still. All other corals look good.

More tank info;
-20l display, 15g sump
-aquamaxx ws1 (if I remember right, in sump version of the HOB)
-some red par38 led for chaeto
- sicce return
- reefkeeper controlling temps and lights
- I have 0 TDS water and using Red Sea blue bucket salt.
- I feed new life spectrum pellets 1/4 of the time, frozen mysis 1/2 the time. Other 1/4 is frozen mysis with a scoop of reef chili mixed in.
- two mp10’s on random mode at like 30% max.
- the tank has moved twice and everytime very little care was taken to not mix up the sand too bad.

I’ll try and attach some photos now. Some befores and some currents.

Any help or tips would be great. I will be upgrading to a 40b sometime in the next 6mos. Hopefully without a sandbed.

 

[ihavecrabs]

Hey there,

I would venture to guess that the reason you are not seeing much movement in nitrates is one of three reasons:

1. Consumption of nitrates is limited by 0 phosphates. For this, you could dose phosphorus slowly to a level of 0.05 and determine if you start seeing a drop in nitrates.
2. Your bacteria needs diversification. For this I would grab a bottle or two of different denitrification bacteria and dose them slowly over a few weeks (not following the manuf guidelines)
3. Consumption of nitrates is carbon limited. For this, you could VERY slowly dose a carbon source.

My bet is on #1. For me, ATI’s carbon and getting my phosphate and nitrate balances did it. Just to be clear though, 30ppm nitrate isn’t terrible. My SPS tank grew like crazy during a period where mine hovered around 30ppm NO3.

Whatever you do, do it slowly so your corals can react favorably to the changes.

Good luck!

 

[JCrowe86]

Hey there,

I would venture to guess that the reason you are not seeing much movement in nitrates is one of three reasons:

1. Consumption of nitrates is limited by 0 phosphates. For this, you could dose phosphorus slowly to a level of 0.05 and determine if you start seeing a drop in nitrates.
2. Your bacteria needs diversification. For this I would grab a bottle or two of different denitrification bacteria and dose them slowly over a few weeks (not following the manuf guidelines)
3. Consumption of nitrates is carbon limited. For this, you could VERY slowly dose a carbon source.

My bet is on #1. For me, ATI’s carbon and getting my phosphate and nitrate balances did it. Just to be clear though, 30ppm nitrate isn’t terrible. My SPS tank grew like crazy during a period where mine hovered around 30ppm NO3.

Whatever you do, do it slowly so your corals can react favorably to the changes.

Good luck!

I have the exact same issue as OP. How do you go about raising phosphate? I'd like to try that before the other methods

 

[Bayareareefer18]

Let me just start by saying the tank is a 20l that I received from a buddy covered in turf algae. I mean every rock was covered. I’ve had the tank since late July/early August. I’ve since manually removed what I could and introduced turbo snails which has left me with very little to zero algae in the display. I’ve also been performing 5-10g water changes just about every week.

Tank params:
Sg: 1.027 just over 35ppt (slowly dropping this taking small amounts of water out when I feed that the ATO will correct.
Temp: steady 77F 24/7
Ph: 8.2
Alk: 7.8dkh
Calc: 415
Phos: 0.01
Nitrate: 30ish (Red Sea test, colors between 20 and 50)


Issues I’m having.
- Nitrates won’t drop much. I feed every other day and only have a cherub angel, orange spot goby and pistol shrimp.
- some algae growth in overflow. (This doesn’t bother me much)
- chaeto sees very little to no growth which I’m hoping will pull nitrates while growing.
- slow growth in everything but some zoas.
- one of my caps looks to be getting more pale. The other seems very vibrant still. All other corals look good.

More tank info;
-20l display, 15g sump
-aquamaxx ws1 (if I remember right, in sump version of the HOB)
-some red par38 led for chaeto
- sicce return
- reefkeeper controlling temps and lights
- I have 0 TDS water and using Red Sea blue bucket salt.
- I feed new life spectrum pellets 1/4 of the time, frozen mysis 1/2 the time. Other 1/4 is frozen mysis with a scoop of reef chili mixed in.
- two mp10’s on random mode at like 30% max.
- the tank has moved twice and everytime very little care was taken to not mix up the sand too bad.

I’ll try and attach some photos now. Some befores and some currents.

Any help or tips would be great. I will be upgrading to a 40b sometime in the next 6mos. Hopefully without a sandbed.

So the WCs have not brought the nitrate down?

 

[mta_morrow]

Hey there,

I would venture to guess that the reason you are not seeing much movement in nitrates is one of three reasons:

1. Consumption of nitrates is limited by 0 phosphates. For this, you could dose phosphorus slowly to a level of 0.05 and determine if you start seeing a drop in nitrates.
2. Your bacteria needs diversification. For this I would grab a bottle or two of different denitrification bacteria and dose them slowly over a few weeks (not following the manuf guidelines)
3. Consumption of nitrates is carbon limited. For this, you could VERY slowly dose a carbon source.

My bet is on #1. For me, ATI’s carbon and getting my phosphate and nitrate balances did it. Just to be clear though, 30ppm nitrate isn’t terrible. My SPS tank grew like crazy during a period where mine hovered around 30ppm NO3.

Whatever you do, do it slowly so your corals can react favorably to the changes.

Good luck!

^^^^^^^^solid advice!

 

[IslandLifeReef]

I agree with what @ihavecrabs said in item one. You are PO4 limited. All algae as well as carbon dosing rely on PO4 uptake to reduce NO3. If you don't have enough PO4 for the algae or bacteria grown via carbon dosing, you will not see a significant reduction in NO3.

So, what do you do? You could do two 50% water changes to reduce the NO3 to around 10 ppm, which would be a normal NO3. This would also reduce your PO4 further.

The other option would be to dose PO4 slowly until it gets to around 0.08 - 0.12 ppm. Then try to keep it there until NO3 drops to a range you are happy with. My NO3 stays between 10 -20 times the level of my PO4. This happens with only a skimmer running and no other removal. I credit this with the tank being mature.

Hope this helps.

 

[ihavecrabs]

I have the exact same issue as OP. How do you go about raising phosphate? I'd like to try that before the other methods

Dosing phosphorus slowly is the best way.

 

[CoRPS]

Hey there,

I would venture to guess that the reason you are not seeing much movement in nitrates is one of three reasons:

1. Consumption of nitrates is limited by 0 phosphates. For this, you could dose phosphorus slowly to a level of 0.05 and determine if you start seeing a drop in nitrates.
2. Your bacteria needs diversification. For this I would grab a bottle or two of different denitrification bacteria and dose them slowly over a few weeks (not following the manuf guidelines)
3. Consumption of nitrates is carbon limited. For this, you could VERY slowly dose a carbon source.

My bet is on #1. For me, ATI’s carbon and getting my phosphate and nitrate balances did it. Just to be clear though, 30ppm nitrate isn’t terrible. My SPS tank grew like crazy during a period where mine hovered around 30ppm NO3.

Whatever you do, do it slowly so your corals can react favorably to the changes.

Good luck!

First off, thank you for the information! Wow.

With that said, what’s a good way to slowly dose phosphates without needing to continue to do so forever? Should I start feeding the pellets more often rather than frozen? Should I just plain feed more often?
I don’t want this tank to be hands-off but I also don’t want to make it a full time job!

Again thank you for such a detailed response!!

 

[ihavecrabs]

First off, thank you for the information! Wow.

With that said, what’s a good way to slowly dose phosphates without needing to continue to do so forever? Should I start feeding the pellets more often rather than frozen? Should I just plain feed more often?
I don’t want this tank to be hands-off but I also don’t want to make it a full time job!

Again thank you for such a detailed response!!

I would dose phosphorus (I use Seachem brand) and test your phosphate and nitrate daily. They will fluctuate quite a bit, but they will eventually even out and you’ll likely be good to go. Then test weekly from then making corrections if need be. I typically go months between corrections.

Eventually your tank will mature enough that you’ll have a canary in the coal mine coral that will tell you when it is off.. mine happens to be a forest fire digitata

 

[CoRPS]

I would dose phosphorus (I use Seachem brand) and test your phosphate and nitrate daily. They will fluctuate quite a bit, but they will eventually even out and you’ll likely be good to go. Then test weekly from then making corrections if need be. I typically go months between corrections.

Eventually your tank will mature enough that you’ll have a canary in the coal mine coral that will tell you when it is off.. mine happens to be a forest fire digitata

Is this the stuff I’m looking for?

 

[ihavecrabs]

Is this the stuff I’m looking for?

Yep!

 

[CoRPS]

Yep!

Great, ordered. Get it Sunday. Any dosing recommendations? I saw the chart but I’m sure that’s not what we’re trying to accomplish here.

 

[UCF Alum]

@CoRPS
I too had the same problem awhile back. Dosing Seachem is the best thing you can do at this point.
The the following formula will get you to where you want to be with it.

0.8vp=m
V= volume of tank in gallons
P= Desired phosphate increase
M= The volume of product to use to get you the result you want

 

[CoRPS]

@CoRPS
I too had the same problem awhile back. Dosing Seachem is the best thing you can do at this point.
The the following formula will get you to where you want to be with it.

0.8vp=m
V= volume of tank in gallons
P= Desired phosphate increase
M= The volume of product to use to get you the result you want

Great. What level am I looking for? If I remember right it’s either 0.25 or 0.025? How much do I want to raise it per day? Or per week? Or raise it all at once before or after a water change?

 

[UCF Alum]

Great. What level am I looking for? If I remember right it’s either 0.25 or 0.025? How much do I want to raise it per day? Or per week? Or raise it all at once before or after a water change?

If I were you, I would turn my skimmer off until you can get to the level of phosphate you’re comfortable with. For me it’s .1
Quit doing water changes also as this is making the addition of phosphate pointless
until you get everything under control.
I run a high nutrient SPS tank with no3 at 30ish and po4 at .1

i’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, needing to run your tank with nitrates at 5 and Po4 at .03 is a myth. Good luck sir.

 

[CoRPS]

If I were you, I would turn my skimmer off until you can get to the level of phosphate you’re comfortable with. For me it’s .1
Quit doing water changes also as this is making the addition of phosphate pointless
until you get everything under control.
I run a high nutrient SPS tank with no3 at 30ish and po4 at .1

i’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, needing to run your tank with nitrates at 5 and Po4 at .03 is a myth. Good luck sir.

Ugh it’s so weird. I’ve been out of the hobby for many years. Back then everyone was searching for 0 nitrates and 0 phosphates. I alwayssssss had “high” nitrates in the 20-30’s and I don’t think I ever checked phos. But I didn’t have any SPS and only LPS and softies and it all grew fantastic so I didn’t really care. But this tank will be mixed and I’m leaning toward sps dominant. Hard to think these params are near acceptable.

Thanks for your input

 

[Bbfishb81]

Algone helped me bring my nitrates down. I did everything including weekly water changes, cutting feeding, increasing phosphates, but it didnt help at all. I put an algone pack in and changed weekly for a month. Never have high nitrates again after that.

 

[CoRPS]

Algone helped me bring my nitrates down. I did everything including weekly water changes, cutting feeding, increasing phosphates, but it didnt help at all. I put an algone pack in and changed weekly for a month. Never have high nitrates again after that.

Gotcha, I’ve already got the Seachem Phosphorous on the way should be here sometime today. Going to give that a shot and see how it goes from there.

 

[IslandLifeReef]

Gotcha, I’ve already got the Seachem Phosphorous on the way should be here sometime today. Going to give that a shot and see how it goes from there.

Good plan! You want to get your nutrients balanced so you don't need to use chemicals to keep them in check.

Once your PO4 comes up, you will notice that your chaeto will start growing and your nitrate will come down. Once your PO4 stay in a range of 0.05-0.10 without dosing, your nutrients will be balanced. At that time, you should be able to maintain your nutrients with your fuge by managing the size of your chaeto ball.

After that time, don't worry to much if your nutrients get low, just trim your chaeto. If the chaeto is growing, your corals will have enough nutrients to grow. You will get a feel for your tank with time.

 

[CoRPS]

Good plan! You want to get your nutrients balanced so you don't need to use chemicals to keep them in check.

Once your PO4 comes up, you will notice that your chaeto will start growing and your nitrate will come down. Once your PO4 stay in a range of 0.05-0.10 without dosing, your nutrients will be balanced. At that time, you should be able to maintain your nutrients with your fuge by managing the size of your chaeto ball.

After that time, don't worry to much if your nutrients get low, just trim your chaeto. If the chaeto is growing, your corals will have enough nutrients to grow. You will get a feel for your tank with time.

Thanks so much for the reassurance. The Seachem phosphorous just came in... nervous as **** pouring it in the tank!

Going to read the directions another 1,000 times before I make the pour